Wicked MACE!!!!!!!!

I agree with Rich... in that I don't see what problems you guys have with clerics. Mine wore full plate armor, carried a full body shield, and wielded this nasty +3 flail that also dealt out fire damage. He had an AC of -8 at the end of the game, and dished out all sorts of whoop-ass alongside my fighters.

And this was a straight-up cleric... no dual-classing or other cheesy tactics.

I just got this wierd mace in the Severd Hand. Something like "Misery's Mace" or something like that. This thing's great and since I hear I have Drow in my future it's even better!
It's +3, +4 vs elves, and damage is +4, +5 vs Elves! Has anyone else seen this bad boy? Suddenly, my cleric is a true badass!!

Have not gotten that far, but a kickass cleric? That is truely a new one to rpgs.

Clerics are like a mate:

"cann't live with 'em;
cann't live without 'em."

Hehehe...touche!
Okay so she's not so much of a friggin' liability in combat anymore. Does that sound more accurate?

I don't know how you guys are playing your clerics, but mine's a tank! She has percentile 18 strength, good constitution, a magical war hammer that lets her memorize extra 1st and 2nd level spells, and a few pieces of jewelery that help out the AC. Plus she's got a few magic stone spells memorized, which gives her some decent long distance options, especially against undead.

HA! I have absolutely nothing against clerics. In fact, they have some pretty decent offensive spells once you get up a ways plus they can be a clobberin' machine it you get them outfitted properly. The ability to wear armor can not be overstated. It can just take a while to get them to that point.

Why, as long as you brought it up, do people seem to look sideways at dualing your characters? If it weren't a part of PnP, I wouldn't even bring it up, but it has always been the human alternative to multiclassing and I think that it makes for a great character. I come from the old Neverwinter on AOL and so dualing cleric/mage was what everyone did to stay alive there, but I think that dualing is a very powerful alternative to multiclass characters, especially since there are racial level restrictions for just about every race and every class. This was the case in BG and even though there have been some who've told me that racial limits are not in place in IWD, I have yet to hear a definitive answer on it. I don't see it as a matter of purity in the game, because it's an integral part of D&D, always has been.
Anyhoo, I ramble. Done!

I don't really have anything against dual-classing per se, but I see it as a powergamer's trick which has nothing to do with role-playing. If I were the DM of a pen and paper game, and someone started telling me about the character he was creating my game stating something like, "Oh yeah... I want to make a fighter... but then about 9th level I'm going to dual-class to a druid so that I can bypass armor restrictions for the class and have a druid who kicks other druids' asses".. I'd tell this guy to get the hell outta my game.

Why? He's not building a character he can get into, he's building a character he can dominate the game with, and that's not what Dungeons & Dragons is about.

Now, on the other hand, if a person in my game who was a fighter that had built up some levels came to me and said, "Y'know, Joseph the Mighty was really inspired by that druid we ran across a few nights back, and wants to learn more about that Faith... maybe even join as an apprentive" I'd be much more impressed, and would probably start to help him make the transition.

See the difference? In pen and paper, the dual-classing works because you have a live person judging the action, who can curb powergamers and keep them from overwhelming the game. In games like Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, the computer doesn't have this ability, so you can powergame the crap out've your characters and breeze through the entire thing.

But again... I'm not telling anyone not to do this.. don't think I am. I'm merely saying *I* refused to do it, because it would have ruined the role-playing experience for me. If you want to create demi-God characters, please, feel free.

-Wretched


Oh, and p.s. - Don't consider anything done in an AOL room as "The right way" to do things.

I understand completely your take on the state of multi-player today. One of my favorite online games in Ultima Online, and I like to play it not because I want to frag other players and take their stuff, but because I enjoy gathering together with a group of friends, and heading out for an adventure. It seems that way too many people don't understand that style of play anymore.

In Diablo II, I'll probably never get deep into the multi-player, because it seems that way too many people are more interested in killing everyone else than they are playing the game cooperatively. I don't know if this is a problem in Icewind Dale, but... I can only assume it is, and so I'm not real likely to ever start up the multi-player version of this game... heck, the only reason I used the multi-player feature in Baldur's Gate was so that I could create my own party, instead of only 1 character.

YES! That's the thing completely. In the original Neverwinter, You oculd petition to become a member of a guild that matched your beliefs and I was part of one that would get parties together and head out ointo the wilderness outside of town on a Friday night and go monster bashing for the sheer joy of it. Man, there were plenty of nights that I got roaring drunk, playing with all these other people with no lives, just like me and it was a blast. The trend toward PVP was starting there and has gotten to the point where that's all multiplayer is now, witness Quake III and Unreal Tournament. The single player in these is a training ground for multiplayer and I think that's a cheat.

The six person party was why I played multi in BG too so I know what ya mean. I do have to say though that it was great for trading too. There's a lot of cool magic out there and it's hard to get it all by yourself. Chances are usually pretty good that you have something that I don't and I may have something that you don't. That, I admit it part of what keeps the game exciting aftewr you finish the game. It's the "What else is out there?" feeling. Agree?

HA! Touche on the AOL thing.
I understand completely on the right and wrong way to do things. I guess I always forget that there are people like that. I've always been in it for the experience of it, not the experience Points you GET for it. I think that's why I've gotten away from multiplayer in recent years. The whole trend has gone from the cooperative party style to everyone wanting to deathmatchblahblahblah...I don't like it. I prefer a cool plot, mixed with some decent action, I point to the SSI gold box series or Wolfenstein. That really seems like it's lost on gamers today. With gaming now, you'll always find someone who found a way to cheat or hack their character to make hm bigger than you so he can feeb ya or frag ya to get yer stuff. It got old for me when Quake came out and there was no longer a co-op 'you and me against the monsters' type multiplayer option anymore. At that point, multiplayer lost most of it's appeal (mainly because I suck at it!) Oh well, I'm on another rant, I guess. Point is, I understand. BTW, I'm in the Severd Hand and I just have to say one more time that this is one COOL game!