standing for peace

[Tancred]

Originally posted by tracey: then i pity you

You might pity me, but I fear for you. And I think I am less needful of your pity, because I am not one of those who will die - yet.

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: We need to stop with the rhetoric, and snap reactions, and take a long cold hard look at what needs to be done on a global scale to stop terrorism. Anyway,I'm bowing out of this discussion for the time being, because like pretty much everyone else, I just seem to be repeating myself over and over and over again! Goodnight ducks.

How long of a look should we take and how many more attacks will be made in that time? I too am repeating myself in saying that, yes we do need to look at a long term solution to global terrorism, but we also need to show some sort of reponse now to bring to justice (whether that means capture or death) of the perpetrators of this act...we can look all we want, but I gaurantee that while we draw up plans for an eradication of terrorism, they will be out their drawing up AND carrying out more attacks!

Goodnight Silver Cheetah! Sleep well

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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Bossman of Better Funny Stuff.....of the Laughing Hyenas!

[Yorick]

Tancred, Tracey, this is bulls#@t. You're going to end up severly depressing one another.

Tancred, what comes to pass does not until it's here. The bleak society you evisioned for the future is not yet here. Give her a break.

All this talk of realism, fear, pity. Live in the moment a little. At present There is no bomb exploding, you are not dead and the USA and England are not being hit by bombs. Let what will be, take care of itself.


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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!


[This message has been edited by Yorick (edited 09-23-2001).]

[Tancred]

Originally posted by Yorick: Tancred, Tracey, this is bulls#@t. You're going to end up severly depressing one another. Tancred, what comes to pass does not until it's here. The bleak society you evisioned for the future is not yet here. Give her a break. All this talk of realism, fear, pity. Live in the moment a little. At present There is no bomb exploding, you are not dead and the USA and England are not being hit by bombs. Let what will be, take care of itself.

Very well.

Um... I'm sorry, tracey.

If military action is going to stop terrorism, then why does Isreal still suffer from so many attacks, all the while they have laid considerable resources into killing as many terrorist thier intel could find? The answer is that violence will beget more violence. What causes violence? Fear. Ignorance. The terrorist are ignorant of what the united states and democracy stands for,amongst other things, and in fear they lash out at an imagined threat. Here in the States we are now afraid, Death has come a knockin. And in fear we seek to attack right back. Its doomed to fail. For every terrorist that gets killed, 3 more will takes his place to fight the threat they fear, and this time it'll be knocking right on their front door. The vicious circle goes round and round. Peace is a reality we choose to create, or not. And in the spirit that military intelligence is an oxymoron, so is waging war for peace. Paradox, hypocrisy, or the futile resignation that there is no other way? Political leaders are using this tragedy to make themselves look, well powerful. All of thier huffing and puffing leaves me feeling sorry for them. There is always a choice, always another way.

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Peace be with you

[This message has been edited by G'kar (edited 09-23-2001).]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by G'kar: If military action is going to stop terrorism, then why does Isreal still suffer from so many attacks, all the while they have laid considerable resources into killing as many terrorist thier intel could find? The answer is that violence will beget more violence. What causes violence? Fear. Ignorance. The terrorist are ignorant of what the united states and democracy stands for,amongst other things, and in fear they lash out at an imagined threat. Here in the States we are now afraid, Death has come a knockin. And in fear we seek to attack right back. Its doomed to fail. For every terrorist that gets killed, 3 more will takes his place to fight the threat they fear, and this time it'll be knocking right on their front door. The vicious circle goes round and round. Peace is a reality we choose to create, or not. And in the spirit that military intelligence is an oxymoron, so is waging war for peace. Paradox, hypocrisy, or the futile resignation that there is no other way? Political leaders are using this tragedy to make themselves look, well powerful. All of thier huffing and puffing leaves me feeling sorry for them. There is always a choice, always another way.

Because the terrorists are given shelter by the Palestinians and Syrians, and every time Israel uses force to seek out or pre-empt the attackers, the world condemns them and they hold back. Yes violence births violence, but then Israel is in a corner. Lose-Lose. With a united world coalition against terrorism, and a firm us/them signal against sponsorship and sheltering them, hopefully we will make some ground.



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Great thread, guys and gals.

Moridin, with all of our might and strenght as a nation, don't you think we could come up with effective solutions better than the old send the military and carpet bomb approach?

If we had a Court of Justice, something along the lines of what Silver Cheetah suggested in another thread (perhaps an international body set up specifically for the purpose, as at Nurembourg after world war ii or more recently to try war crimes in what used to be Yugoslavia), then whatever judgement they decreed against Bin Laden cut be executed by a small elite force trained for the purpose. With patience, Bin Laden's location and movements could be tracked and plans could be put into play for dealing with him.

That would seem far better than rushing off to start an old fashioned war with planes and bombs and the like.

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: Great thread, guys and gals. Moridin, with all of our might and strenght as a nation, don't you think we could come up with effective solutions better than the old send the military and carpet bomb approach? If we had a Court of Justice, something along the lines of what Silver Cheetah suggested in another thread (perhaps an international body set up specifically for the purpose, as at Nurembourg after world war ii or more recently to try war crimes in what used to be Yugoslavia), then whatever judgement they decreed against Bin Laden cut be executed by a small elite force trained for the purpose. With patience, Bin Laden's location and movements could be tracked and plans could be put into play for dealing with him. That would seem far better than rushing off to start an old fashioned war with planes and bombs and the like.

AAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH...who said we are going to carpet bomb the country?!?!?!?! I will state again, that a military campaign DOES NOT neccessarily mean a bomb the s*** from afar campaign...perhaps moving military support into the area is a defensive back-up for a covert mission...has anyone thought that perhaps we are going to use a specialized, seek and capture/destroy force, but that we are moving aircraft/ships into the area just in case this does not work. We have not started bombing, and I hope that we don't start random bombing...I am sick of my position being stripped down to "carpet bombing"!

I also agree, if you missed it, that some sort of long-term solution needs to be found. Whether this is an international anti-terrorism group/court or whether it is a prolonged military/economic campaign or whatever...but we cannot sit and wait for such a group to be formed. Terrorists will strike again and again, while we form committees to discuss said attacks...we at least need a starting point, if to do nothing else, keep these terrorists occupied while we can come up with a better solution!

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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Bossman of Better Funny Stuff.....of the Laughing Hyenas!

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: Great thread, guys and gals. Moridin, with all of our might and strenght as a nation, don't you think we could come up with effective solutions better than the old send the military and carpet bomb approach? If we had a Court of Justice, something along the lines of what Silver Cheetah suggested in another thread (perhaps an international body set up specifically for the purpose, as at Nurembourg after world war ii or more recently to try war crimes in what used to be Yugoslavia), then whatever judgement they decreed against Bin Laden cut be executed by a small elite force trained for the purpose. With patience, Bin Laden's location and movements could be tracked and plans could be put into play for dealing with him. That would seem far better than rushing off to start an old fashioned war with planes and bombs and the like.

*sigh* This is looking circular. No-one is talking old fashioned war. Also an international council would need to be accepted by individual nations for it to work (Have you heard of the toothless "League of Nations"?

The Taliban do not care about world opinion or world actions as proven by their past behaviour in disregarding the said world opinion.


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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Gabriel: I been wondoring here to post this and I think this shall be the place. I understand that this so called 'war' on terrorism will happen, even if they give Bin Laden over but I do not agree with it. The very act of moving US forces will kill thousands of innocents, Afghanistan is on the verge of famine and around 20% of the population is estimated to starve to death by the end of this year. That number will probably rise now that people have stopped trying to grow food and now that aid organisations have pulled out. The planned strategic bombing will probably be useless, Afghanistan has not infrastructure to bomb and if the training camps are found they will contain only a few troops if any. The 'higher-ups' will be in safe locations, some not even in Afghanistan. Also many he has training camps outside Afghanistan, in areas that are sympathetic to his cause like Pakistan. Any planned insertion of ground troops will only lead to attack by the Talaben (if they haven't attacked all ready.) and probably the rebels’ factions who might see it as an invasion of their country. This 'war' will also be fought as a Griller war, which America wasn't fought since Vietnam and will probably last until winter. Since Afghanistan is a mountain nation it winters are harsh, and all of these factions will lead to heavy losses for the US. These actions may also strengthen the Talaban control, as I heard that they were close to entering a civil war between various generals who seek power. Also 'others' outside Afghanistan will perform more attacks on US soil and that of any who support them. This whole thing will only lead to a lot more deaths on both sides.

Well said, Gabriel.

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