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[Sir Heinrich Godfrie IV]

Posted By: Jorath Calar (does the word "Witchhunt" mean anything to you Sir Godfrie?)

No... not really.

How am i wrong for criticizing someone who is blind to facts?

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Sir Heinrich Godfrie IV: quote: Posted By: Jorath Calar (does the word "Witchhunt" mean anything to you Sir Godfrie?)

No... not really.

How am i wrong for criticizing someone who is blind to facts?[/QUOTE]Let's not flame-bait eh? Getting riled up won't do any good. Alot of people died concerning this issue, and alot more are going to die. Approach it calmly and collectedly. Getting upset just brings added emotional baggage.

[LennonCook]

Originally posted by Sir Heinrich Godfrie IV: He FIRST sent special forces there to INVESTIGATE, as did the Brittish. He later sent more troops after he warned the Taliban to hand over Bin Laden and help us shut down al Qieda. And i can gaurentee that we (US) had substancial evidence that Osama, al Qieda, and the Taliban were behind this. It sounds like you would rather the US not have gone in when they did, or maybe not at all! May i remind you that girls can finally attend school now and women don't have to wear those inhumane burkas anymore. Not that that was our original intent for going in there but it sure shows that a LOT more good than bad has resulted from our operations. OH, and i want to give credit to the Brits, Ausies, and others for helping there. It also SOUNDS like you are sympathizing with the terrorists! I hope that i am wrong.

He sent special forces to investigate, ok granted. Special forces which consisted of three quaters of the US army, with nuclear weaponary in enough quantity to kill North and South America BOTH twice, were sent to "investigate" .
The taliban, from what I read (and I went to alot of media sources in order to read between the very very solid lines), refused to turn over Bin Laden until the US could give proof of Bin Laden's involvement in WTC bombing.
Girls attending school, and women not having to wear burkas, had almost nothing to do with the US involvement- after again reading between the lines of many media sources, I found that those freedoms were the work of the Northern Alliance, and smaller, similar, groups.
As for more good than bad... lessee... civilians killed, buildings destroyed, cities evacuated, people needing hospitals which they cant get to... all the work of the US, and not a single Taliban/Al Quieda reported as captured or killed yet. Thus, the US is no better than what you accuse the Al Quieda of being.
As for what I would have prefered- a suitable length investigation carried out in order to PROVE bin Ladens involvement, and if indeed it is proven to have been him, have an extradition and a court case "The People vs. Osama bin Laden". THEN all this would have been justified.
And sympathising with the terrorists ?? 1) They have not yet been proven to be terrorists, 2) I am not sympathising with them, simply stating my opinions into this "war on terrorism" (which Bush has turned into a war on some people who we dont even know are the enemy), and giving the facts which back my opinions up.

[ 05-21-2002, 06:09 AM: Message edited by: LennonCook ]

[LennonCook]

Originally posted by Sir Heinrich Godfrie IV: How am i wrong for criticizing someone who is blind to facts?

You are wrong in that this is a discussion, a debate even. In a debate, you do not argue by saying someone sound like theyre "sympathising with terrorists" or "blind to facts". You approach it in a calm, civil manner. In any discussion, especially debates, you should refute the arguments, not the person presenting them.

[Scholarcs]

I think it is important to remember that the US just recently bombed a wedding in an Afghan town, killing dozens of people, after mistaking traditional ceremonial firing to be an attack!

That is why I think that George Bush is just as much a murderer as bin Laden is.

[Sir Heinrich Godfrie IV]

Originally Posted By: LennonCook He sent special forces to investigate, ok granted. Special forces which consisted of three quaters of the US army, with nuclear weaponary in enough quantity to kill North and South America BOTH twice, were sent to "investigate" .

Why should we not send as much power and tools as we can? It's called a war. The US has nuclear submarines at every corner of the globe and has for years, so what's your point? Its not like we used them.

The taliban, from what I read (and I went to alot of media sources in order to read between the very very solid lines), refused to turn over Bin Laden until the US could give proof of Bin Laden's involvement in WTC bombing.

First off, we had solid proof and just because the government doesn't show it to the public (for our safety), does not mean that we didn't have a legitimate reason for making the demands that we made.

Girls attending school, and women not having to wear burkas, had almost nothing to do with the US involvement- after again reading between the lines of many media sources, I found that those freedoms were the work of the Northern Alliance, and smaller, similar, groups.

I didn't say that was our reason for going there, i said that it was one of the POSITIVE things that resulted from the operation. And you are exactly right about the Northern Alliance doing most of the dirty work, but i guarentee that they would not have been able to do anything if it wasn't for US and allied support.

As for more good than bad... lessee... civilians killed, buildings destroyed, cities evacuated, people needing hospitals which they cant get to... all the work of the US, and not a single Taliban/Al Quieda reported as captured or killed yet. Thus, the US is no better than what you accuse the Al Quieda of being.

I think if you were to go there and ask (privately) the citizens of Afghanistan if they are glad that we came and threw out the Taliban regime, i think their answer would be quite obvious! And what do you call all those animals that are caged up at Guantanomo Bay Cuba? And if i correctly read what you wrote, then you feel that the US is no better than the Al Quieda terrorist organization. that statement alone is DISGUSTING!!

As for what I would have prefered- a suitable length investigation carried out in order to PROVE bin Ladens involvement, and if indeed it is proven to have been him, have an extradition and a court case "The People vs. Osama bin Laden". THEN all this would have been justified.

And if indeed it is proven?!?! IT HAS BEEN! Even der Schweindhund himself (bin Laden) admitted it on tape! He was celebrating what he had done to us. Why do you have trouble seeing how clear this all is? And bring him to court....Oookkaayy.

And sympathising with the terrorists ?? 1) They have not yet been proven to be terrorists, 2) I am not sympathising with them, simply stating my opinions into this "war on terrorism" (which Bush has turned into a war on some people who we dont even know are the enemy), and giving the facts which back my opinions up.

They haven't been proven to be terrorists!?!? According to who, Noam Chomsky?
Come on...i can't seriously believe that you think all of this.

[Scholarcs]

Originally posted by Sir Heinrich Godfrie IV: I think if you were to go there and ask (privately) the citizens of Afghanistan if they are glad that we came and threw out the Taliban regime, i think their answer would be quite obvious! And what do you call all those animals that are caged up at Guantanomo Bay Cuba? And if i correctly read what you wrote, then you feel that the US is no better than the Al Quieda terrorist organization. that statement alone is DISGUSTING!!

I agree with that, read my last post on page 1, I also honestly believe that the US is no better than any other terrorist orginstaion which kills civilians.

[Sir Heinrich Godfrie IV]

Originally Posted By: Scholarcs I think it is important to remember that the US just recently bombed a wedding in an Afghan town, killing dozens of people, after mistaking traditional ceremonial firing to be an attack! That is why I think that George Bush is just as much a murderer as bin Laden is.

Thats right, it was a MISTAKE. Do you ever make mistakes? Wow, and then you want to equate Bush with bin Laden? It's people like you who scare me more than the terrorists themselves. Because you give these animals the support (indirectly) and arguments to carry out these attrocities!! Oh well, there may still be hope for you after all, as long as you haven't turned 40 years old yet.

[WOLFGIR]

Guys, ease up alright.
There is not for nothing we had separate forums for this during the time after 11th september.

So take it cool and don´t post anything in haste about this matter alright?

[caleb]

I agree with lennon. Al Quaeda are NOT terrorists. They give candy to children, rob from the rich and give to the poor, and do not kill thousands of innocent civilians on purpose....oh wait they DO kill thousand of innocents on purpose and make videos showing off for it? OK I guess their terrorists then my mistake.