The Archer's Tragedy

[Dundee Slaytern]

Parmesan, a General Mage by trade, entered an inn named the Den of the Seven Vales, hoping to get a drink and a room to stay the night. The candlelights around him flickered as he scanned the noisy room for a table. He spied a table that only had one occupant, a hooded figure who seemed intent on killing himself with alcohol, judging from the numerous pitchers of ale strewn all over the table in front of him.

Approaching the table, Parmesan looked at the hooded figure and asked for permission to sit with him, but all he got was a slurred reply which he took to be consent. Settling down, he cleared some space on the table and asked what troubled the hooded figure, to which the hooded figure replied...

"Ken... saissss."

The effect was almost immediate. The whole inn hushed into silence at the mere mention of the word. Parmesan recoiled in horror hearing the word.

"Stuuuupid stinking Kensais..." the hooded figure continued to slur, "Think they so good... think they better than me... NO! Not better than me! ME BEST! ME!"

It was then that the hooded figure burst into tears and sobbed uncontrollably on the table. Parmesan hestitated for a moment, before he asked what had happened.

"Stupid Kensai betted with me... say he better at ranged attacks than me... of course I laugh! Me Ranger! Me Archer! But... but..."

Lips quivering, the hooded figure reached from his left pocket under his cloak, revealing a broken bow.

"Useless junk."

Reaching from his right pocket, he revealed a broken crossbow.

"Even more useless..."

It was then that a voice piped out from another table, another hooded figure stood on his stool and shouted out loud, "I feel your pain, brother! I, Kipper, a Thief by trade, got humilated by some pompous Kensai->Thief! Stupid Kensais indeed!"

"Yeah! I'm a victim too! Kensai->Druids are so lame!"

One by one, patrons in the inn starting standing up and condemning the Kensais, till Parmesan could stand it no more and had to join in too, "I too... have been victimised by a Kensai->Mage. Damn them... damn them all."

Everybody in the inn roared in approval, and it was on that fateful night, that the Kill Kensai Society was born... ...

--------

Actually I wanted Kill Krappy Kensais, but I felt it might prove too provocative.

Short Bow of Gesen Acid Arrow: 1d6 +1, +1d3 acid damage Grandmastery: +5 Kit Bonus: +9 Weapon Bonus: +2, 1d8 electrical damage Gauntlet of Extraordinary Specialisation: +2 Called Shot: +2 Normal Hit, 3.5 + 1 + 2 + 5 + 9 + 2 + 4.5 + 2 + 2 = 31 damage on average Critical Hit, (3.5 + 1 + 5 + 9 + 2 + 2 + 2 ) * 2 + 2 + 4.5 = 55.5 damage on average ApR, Base: 2 Warrior Bonus: +1 GoES: +0.5 Grandmastery: +1.5 Total: 5 ApR 40 rounds garners 200 swings, giving us 10 Critical Misses and 10 Critical Hits, leaving behind 180 normal hits. Average damage per round, ( ( 31 * 180 ) + ( 55.5 * 10 ) ) / 40 = 153.375

Light Crossbow of Speed Kuo-Toa Bolts: 2d6 Grandmastery: +5 Kit Bonus: +9 Weapon Bonus: +1 Gauntlet of Extraordinary Specialisation: +2 Called Shot: +2 Normal Hit, 7 + 5 + 9 + 1 + 2 + 2 = 26 damage on average Critical Hit, 26 * 2 = 52 damage on average ApR, Base: 2 Warrior Bonus: +1 GoES: +0.5 Grandmastery: +1.5 Total: 5 ApR 40 rounds garners 200 swings, giving us 10 Critical Misses and 10 Critical Hits, leaving behind 180 normal hits. Average damage per round, ( ( 26 * 180 ) + ( 52 * 10 ) ) / 40 = 130

Firetooth Kuo-Toa Bolts: 2d6 Grandmastery: +5 Kit Bonus: +9 Weapon Bonus: +5, +2 fire damage Gauntlet of Extraordinary Specialisation: +2 Called Shot: +2 Normal Hit, 7 + 5 + 9 + 5 + 2 + 2 + 2 = 32 damage on average Critical Hit, ( 30 * 2 ) + 2 = 62 damage on average ApR, Base: 1 Warrior Bonus: +1 GoES: +0.5 Grandmastery: +1.5 Total: 4 ApR 40 rounds garners 160 swings, giving us 8 Critical Misses and 8 Critical Hits, leaving behind 144 normal hits. Average damage per round, ( ( 32 * 144 ) + ( 62 * 8 ) ) / 40 = 127.6

Fire Tooth Weapon Damage: 2d4 +3, +2 fire damage Grandmastery: +5 Kit Bonus: +13 22 STR bonus: +10 Normal Hit, 8 + 5 + 10 + 13 + 2 = 38 damage on average Critical Hit, ( 36 * 2 ) + 2 = 74 damage on average ApR, Base: 2 Warrior Bonus: +1 Grandmastery: +1.5 Total: 4.5 ApR 40 rounds garners 180 swings, giving us 9 Critical Misses and 18 Critical Hits, leaving behind 153 normal hits. Single-weapon style grants Critical Hits on a roll of 19 and 20. Average damage per round, ( ( 38 * 153 ) + ( 74 * 18 ) ) / 40 = 178.65

Erinne Sling: Archer Bullet +4: 1d4 +5 Weapon Bonus: +5 Kit Bonus: +9 Specialisation: +2 Call Shot: +2 GoES: +2 STR 22 Bonus: +10 Normal Hit: 2.5 + 5 + 5 + 9 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 10 = 37.5 Critical Hit: 37.5 * 2 = 75 damage on average ApR, Base: 1 Warrior Bonus: +1 Specialisation: +0.5 GoES: +0.5 Total: 3 ApR 40 rounds garners 120 swings, giving us 6 Critical Misses and 6 Critical Hits, leaving behind 108 normal hits. Average damage per round, ( ( 37.5 * 108 ) + ( 75 * 6 ) ) / 40 = 112.5

[ 03-04-2003, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

[Alson]

I feel your pain. Kensais are the best ranged attackers.

Nice writeing, BTW. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Rataxes]

Doesn't Single Weapon Style give you a Critical Hit on a 19 and 20?

[Jim]

Originally posted by Rataxes: Doesn't Single Weapon Style give you a Critical Hit on a 19 and 20?

Yes, therefore giving firetooth even more of an advantage.

A few points:

• nice story, great imagination! [img]smile.gif[/img]
• Bows look cooler!
• Gesen provides the +2 piercing damage, even when used in conjunction with other ammo, therefore boosting Gesens average damage per round by 10
• Kensais can't wear gauntlets, therefore, the Fire Tooth wielder with have 9/2 attacks rather than 5, and will have -2 damage each hit
• Things get very different thanks to the Generic Archer :

Short Bow of Gesen Acid Arrow: 1d6 +1, +1d3 acid damage Weapons Bonus: +2 Grandmastery: +5 Kit Bonus: +13 Weapon Bonus: 1d8 electrical damage Gauntlet of Extraordinary Specialisation: +2 Called Shot: +2 Normal Hit, 3.5 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 5 + 13 + 4.5 + 2 + 2 = 35 damage on average Critical Hit, (3.5 + 1 + 2 + 5 + 13 + 2 + 2) * 2 + 2 + 4.5 = 63.5 damage on average ApR, Base: 2 Warrior Bonus: +1 GoES: +0.5 Grandmastery: +1.5 Total: 5 ApR 40 rounds garners 200 swings, giving us 10 Critical Misses and 10 Critical Hits, leaving behind 180 normal hits. Average damage per round, ( ( 35 * 180 ) + ( 63.5 * 10 ) ) / 40 = 173.375

Fire Tooth Weapon Damage: 2d4 +3, +2 fire damage Grandmastery: +5 Kit Bonus: +13 22 STR bonus: +10 Normal Hit, 8 + 5 + 10 + 13 = 36 damage on average Critical Hit, ( 34 * 2 ) + 2 = 68 damage on average ApR, Base: 2 Warrior Bonus: +1 Grandmastery: +1.5 Total: 4.5 ApR 40 rounds garners 180 swings, giving us 9 Critical Misses and 18 Critical Hits, leaving behind 153 normal hits. Average damage per round, ( ( 36 * 153 ) + ( 68 * 18 ) ) / 40 = 168.3

Therefore, the archer fights back

p.s, I edited your Fire Tooth values slightly, since you said:

40 rounds garners 200 swings, giving us 10 Critical Misses and 10 Critical Hits, leaving behind 144 normal hits.

and 200-10-10 doesn't equal 144

EDIT: Whoops, forgot to close the LIST and QUOTE tags

[ 03-04-2003, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: Jim ]

[daan]

Call me stupid, because I most likely am ... but why cant the archer have 22 strength ?

[Jim]

Originally posted by daan: Call me stupid, because I most likely am ... but why cant the archer have 22 strength ?

You ain't stupid laddie. He can, it's just that STR damage is not applied to bows/crossbows, where as Fire Tooth (the Dagger) does apply the STR bonus.

Now if we were to give the archer a +5 sling and a bag of plenty +2, things could get very interesting, since we can then add the STR damage to the missiles......

[Jim]

Erinne's Sling +5 Bullet +2: 1D4+3 Grandmastery: +5 Kit Bonus: +13 Weapon Bonus: +5 Gauntlet of Extraordinary Specialisation: +2 Called Shot: +2 22 STR: +10 Normal Hit, 2.5 + 3 + 5 + 13 + 5 + 2 + 2 + 10 = 42.5 damage on average Critical Hit, (40.5 * 2) + 2 = 83 damage on average ApR, Base: 1 Warrior Bonus: +1 GoES: +0.5 Grandmastery: +1.5 Total: 4 ApR 40 rounds garners 160 swings, giving us 10 Critical Misses and 10 Critical Hits, leaving behind 140 normal hits. Average damage per round, ( ( 42.5 * 140 ) + ( 83 * 10 ) ) / 40 = 169.5

The archer extends his lead. The Kensai begins to quiver in his boots......

This may not beat Gesen, but is still beats a Kensai with Fire Tooth.

[ 03-04-2003, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Jim ]

[Dundee Slaytern]

Jim, an Archer cannot Grandmaster in Slings. You also forgot to add in the fire damage for Fire Tooth. I have edited my calculations at the top to reflect the new data. Thanks by the way, for the corrections.

On another note, if you want to include mods, Kensais are going to bury the competition with one thing, and one thing only.

Impaler +4

[Jim]

Jim, an Archer cannot Grandmaster in Slings.

This is an outrage! You'd think that a master of missile weapons, could become a master with slings!

I wonder if the Generic Archer can though......he certainly has a higher degree of skill with melee weapons over the Ranger Archer. I don't have BG2 to hand at the mo, but maybe you could check this?

Thanks by the way, for the corrections.

no worries [img]smile.gif[/img]

...You also forgot to add in the fire damage for Fire Tooth...

Thanks by the way, for the corrections.

As for Impailer, yeah I guess that kind of puts an end to the debate, although I simply *refuse* to use a "belm / impailer +3 / longbow and then some" weapon in my games, due to the fact that, well, there would be absolutely no challenge left! I can't belive the Impailer Spear was considered underpowered and in need of a revamp, when it ranks right up there with the most damaging weapons of SoA and ToB.

I think the Generic Archer can be used though, since it's commonly installed nowadays with everyone using the Tactics mod, and it certainly isn't overpowered.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Upgrading Impaler to a +4 enchantment is fine by me, but what mortifies me is that they allowed it to be thrown. Sometimes I wonder if they stopped to consider what they are doing to a weapon.

Impaler was meant to be a bad-assed MELEE weapon. NONE, and I mean NONE of the other ranged weapons can even begin to compare to it. Oh well... the option to make it is up to the user, although I sincerely wish they remove the throwing ability in a future update of the Item Upgrade Mod.

It should not surprise many, but I for one, do not support the idea of the Fighter Archer. Why muscle into an area that is already occupied by the Ranger Archer? The Fighter Archer is superior to the Ranger Archer overall, and people will be hardpressed to choose the original over the mod version, especially when you consider that the Fighter Archer can be DUALED to another class besides the Cleric.

They should at least compensate a bit by,

1) Fix the Ranger Archer so that his Kit Bonuses does not get nerfed after level 18
2) No Call Shot ability for the Fighter Archer
3) Fix the Ranger Archer so that he can grandmaster in Slings and Darts, and specialise in Daggers.

I still think that the FArcher has an advantage over the RArcher even after these tweaks though. I never really dwelled upon the issue as I never installed the FArcher( or the Anti-Paladin for that matter).