Friendly Reminder

[Night Stalker]

Just some general thoughts. None are aimed at anyone in particular.

1. Try to stay on topic, especially in "I need help" threads. It becomes discouraging to people trying to get advice to watch their question get horribly derailed into 3+ pages of tangents. If you want to discuss something unrelated to the topic at hand, start a new topic. That way people can get the help they want, and others can discuss other topics with out stepping on eachother.

2. If you are asking for specific game help (where do I find ____? how do I get by _____? ect.) Put SPOILER in the topic. This lets those that want to help you know what kind of help you are looking for, and lets those that do not want to be spoiled avoid the topic. And don't put the spoiling info in the title.

3. If the author has not requested spoilers, put a SPOILER header in your reply.
SPOILER
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this way readers are warned, and can avoid the info if they want to.

4. If the author of a post has requested not to be spoiled, DO NOT SPOIL. Now spoiling information is subjective and relative to game progression, but if it is information that you didn't have at that point in the game, chances are it's a spoiler.

5. Don't forget to check out the TOS from time to time.

Take care all. Have fun, and keep posting! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Kakero]

1. * cough cough *...emmm...* cough cough *. yes, you are right. topic nowadays suddenly goes way out of topic and goes 3 pages long! man, can you imagine that? ahem! I say let's hunt those people down and throw them into deepest dungeon and throw away the keys. * cough cough *

2,3,4,5. Hmmm..probably would be better if someone could explain the meaning of spoiler in the accused own language.

[TheSlayer]

I generally agree on everything. But I dont really see a problem with help-threads going off topic if the asking person has already gotten covering anwsers, as is generally the case.

Concerning spoilers... well... If you reveal information on how to achieve a specific goal (gain an item, complete a quest etc.) it would be considered a spoiler. I dont really know how else to put it.

[ 03-12-2003, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: TheSlayer ]

[Night Stalker]

Do you have a guilty conscience perhaps? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Seriously, though,I was not targeting you or anyone else. I noticed these things on other forums as well. I just frequent the Morrowind forum most often.

As for what spoil means, it means to go bad, or to ruin. In a gaming sense tagging off of the second definition, it means to reveal information about the game. Z has a nice description in the TOS.

[B_part]

Originally posted by TheSlayer: I generally agree on everything. But I dont really see a problem with help-threads going off topic if the asking person has already gotten covering anwsers, as is generally the case.

I agree with him... usually the help comes within the 3rd post from the start. What happens after isn't that important, is it?

as to the other points, I fully agree.

[Kakero]

hmm..I just have the strangest feeling that a mod or Ziroc will visit this morrowind board sometime later and will have a final say on things.

[SecretMaster]

Finally, someone is speaking out. Well I'm glad, I've gotten spoiled a total of 5 times (and they were PRETTY big spoils) on this forum, when I say not too. Its ridiculous.

[B_part]

Maybe it's time we sat down and thought about a clear and shared meaning of spoiler, so that we can define what our behaviour should be.
I will set out some examples, and give my opinion. Then I will open a poll and we can vote.
A ruling opinion from Ziroc, which must have had previous experiences, would be really appreciated.

Ex. 1)Thread title: "Daedric crescent" by sh40l1n.m0nk
IMO the title isn't a spoiler - all you can understand is that in the game there is something called a daedric crescent. I think however that, given the content of the first post, the title should read "Daedric crescent - spoilers"

ex. 2)

Thread: pathfinding **spoilers** (by Vedram) Originally posted by Vedram: have a mod that brings a follower (Jessica) in the game. It is good, she is not too overpowered (as far as I can tell), but there comes the problem. I was exploring the ruins of Arkghthand (or whatever) and found the puzzle box. (...)

Two remarks: A) the reference to the puzzle box and Arkghtand isn't a spoiler IMO: unless you know what they are, you won't understand it.
b)the reference to the follower isn't IMO a spoiler as well: you simply get to know that there is a mod which gives you a follower. IMO threads about mods shouldn't be considered spoiling if they simply state what the mod does - talking about single mod quests counts as spoiling.

So, IMO, the thread shouldn't be included in the spoiling category. If we start labeling every single thread as spoiler, we might as well close the forum.

ex. 3)

Originally posted by The Slayer You get your own residence when you become high rank in a Great House, either Telvanni, Hlaalu or Redoran. If you want a house earlier on in the game you can always just take over an empty house. If you join the Balmora Guild of Fighters you will get a quest to slay someone in town - that leaves a good house empty for use.

Is this a spoiler? IMO, yes, although slight: a slight spoiler label should have been put up. The post gives away info about the fact that you will get a manor and a fighter guild quest, even though it doesn't give many details.

ex. 4)

Originally posted by me: How to cheat merchants: buying: high merchant skill will rape them into giving away their goods for two cents. selling: the sales are bugged- the higher the disposition, the lower price you can get when you sell. Unless you drop the disposition of the merchant towards you. At disp 100, merch 100 you can sell at about 1/8 of the value. At disp 30 merch 100 you can sell at full price. How do you lower disp? Just ask an impossible price for anything - and keep bargaining (and get refusals) for a while. then click cancel. You will notice the disp has dropped. barter again and get a good price. the effect isn't permanent - if you click goodbye and then talk to the char again, the disp will be as high as it was in the beginning. Beware: don't drop the disp under 30, otherwise the merch will refuse to trade and you will need to bribe/admire him.

Is this a spoiler? I described a way of tackling a known bug in the merchantile skill in a thread which asked how the said skill worked. IMO posts that describe general gaming tactics like this shouldn't be labeled as spoilers.

ex. 5)

Originally posted by me: I know, you get fortify skill by retrieving all the threads of the webspinner. (...) (another thread) The big guy is Orvas Dren himself, but he won't attack you on sight, unless maybe when you are trying to become Hortator or Grandmaster of House Hlaalu. In those cases some personality clashes might arise, I suppose, although I have never tried that - the guy was already dead and armor-stripped at the time (note that Orvas Dren had been named before, and the thread asked for spoilers)

IMO this way of hinting at things without revealing is always possible. All the reader can get is curious and puzzled.

ex.6)

Originally posted by me: That's because in fact the [artifact name] is a legion armor stolen to their chief (knight of the dragon) by a rogue legionary...

Now this is a SPOILER. I am sorry I have written this (I have now deleted it, although it's a bit late). I should have formatted the thread properly.

OK, This was hard but it's done. Vote in the poll.

[B_part]

Here's the poll:

Poll

[Rhea]

I'm too lazy to do the poll. [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

My feeling is that if you give out specific information (i.e. "to find the Dwemer puzzle box you [specific info here]) it's a spoiler. Otherwise it's just game strategy and general hints. And truthfully, I come to game boards to be spoiled.

I haven't seen a lot of blatant spoilage here, just the occasional slip.

In terms of threads being derailed, I think it usually happens after the poster's question has been answered (and that usually is about the 2nd or 2rd post). After that, if it wanders, who cares?

All in all, I don't think it's too bad. But then, I've been on Ironworks a lot of years and seen a lot of higher traffic forums where it IS bad. I don't feel overall this particular forum is too bad.

If you're asking for specifics, label your title as a spoiler. If the title's not labeled as a spoiler thread, and you enter specific info, leave a little spoiler space when you answer. It isn't that hard.