08-22-2001, 06:22 PM | #51 |
Ironworks Atomic Moderator
Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Virginia, U.S.A.
Age: 57
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Used to a slow connection there Yorick?
Your sig is still quite the eneggma I see ------------------ |
08-22-2001, 07:00 PM | #52 | |
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 52
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Quote:
------------------ I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on.... A fair dinkum laughing Hyena! |
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08-22-2001, 07:05 PM | #53 | |
Horus - Egyptian Sky God
Join Date: March 4, 2001
Location: either CA or MO
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Quote:
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08-22-2001, 07:18 PM | #54 |
20th Level Warrior
Join Date: May 3, 2001
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I think this arguement is more than believing in a theory but theorising on why why not it could/could not be true.
------------------ "I was born of darkness. My fathers eyes closed before mine opened. I am not of this world or the other, and I have the right to be what I am..." |
08-22-2001, 07:34 PM | #55 |
Ra
Join Date: March 11, 2001
Location: Ant Hill
Age: 49
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The Universe is a living breathing Supreme Trancendent of an Entity and our reality is it's Dream...
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08-22-2001, 07:36 PM | #56 | |
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 52
Posts: 9,246
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Quote:
------------------ I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on.... A fair dinkum laughing Hyena! |
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08-22-2001, 07:41 PM | #57 | |
Red Wizard of Thay
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------------------ Calvin the bold the malt beer lord is in! |
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08-22-2001, 10:52 PM | #58 |
Banned User
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Reading over the many responses on this thread I am pleasantly surprised by the number of ancient greek skeptics here.
The philosophy of that old school held that one could never know for certain the nature of the reality behind appearances, or whether there even was a separate reality behind appearances. Rather than worry about it one simply acted according to appearances without falling into dogmas about the nature of reality. This was in sharp contrast, and was developed as a reaction against, the other ancient Greek philosophical schools, which had dogmatic views about the nature of ultimate reality. Far from being a source of uncertain anxiety, to the ancient skeptics acting according to appearances was liberating -- allowing them total freedom to act according to appearances while freeing them from the constraints of this or that dogma regarding the nature of reality. My own approach to the questions at hand is exactly that of the ancient skeptics (and from your posts I am hardly alone in this) -- whether I am "ultimately" a brain in a vat or not is unknowable, and also doesn't really matter. I simply act according to appearances without formulating any dogmas about the "true" nature of reality behind those appearances, or whether there even is a reality behind those appearances. |
08-23-2001, 06:33 AM | #59 | |
Dracolisk
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Quote:
Heh....I don't believe in the theory of the Immobile Mover, but it is hard to disprove. To the person who said that Cogito ergo sum does not hold because one cannot define 'I' or even 'to be' (Istaron I believe it was): That is just petty nitpicking over terms. Why can't you define I? Your thoughts are a sure sign of the fact that there is an individual thinking them. You can't do that off as being a possible delusion, dream or something. Do you believe your thoughts aren't real? I agree with Dio that in the end it does not matter whether we are really brains in vats, but even when it doesn't matter, I refuse to accept the possibility. The world is SO real, so tangible, so intense....how can't it be true?? I KNOW I exist. I can't believe that my thoughts, the things I create (such as music, words on paper, etc.) are part of a large virtual reality of some kind. Exactly because we experience all this, it is made real. ------------------ Melusine, High Queen of Fluffies, Archbabe of the OHF, the LH, the HADB and the SPAE(Society for the Prevention of Acronym Extinction) & Official Entertainer Elf of the BG2 Bar Your voice is ambrosia Amy Brown Fantasy Art |
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08-23-2001, 07:29 AM | #60 | |
Zhentarim Guard
Join Date: June 23, 2001
Location: Aberystwyth, Wales
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I hate to stick my oar in so late in the day. This thread took me a while to read and is certainly very thought provoking. I'm no student of philosophy, but the last time I had this argument was in a pub (with a philosophy student actually). The argument went on and on, round and round in circles and we became more and more inebriated. Though I conceded that I could not entirely prove the world around me actually existed, I would not admit that *I* did not exist. He said that the only consciousness one could actually prove was ones own, and every other being one came into contact with could conceivably be merely an extension of ones own consciousness.
Finally, he sat back and asked me to prove to him that I existed. Much to the amusement of everyone around us, I reached over and poured the remainder of my pint glass over his head. We all had a good chuckle, and that was that. Ultimately, I cannot see how the rest of this universe could possible contained within my own being since there is so much of it I simply cannot comprehend. Nor can I see the validity in the argument that we are all the mental musings of some other life form (unless you're talking about God and creation, but that's another argument) because of my own passionate free will. Can I prove any of it? Tragically, no. However, as Melusine says (and this I will remember): Quote:
(edit: for critical failure on my 'use grammar' check) ------------------ "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure." [This message has been edited by Sharpedge (edited 08-23-2001).] |
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