For all those who might care, Gibraltar is being sold down the river

Sigmar · 01-15-2002, 04:43 PM

It's come out on Sky news but I doubt many people have heard this. Gibraltar has been a topic of much heated debate over the last ten years. I think a VERY brief history would clear things up a bit. Basically Gibraltar was first captured by the Moorish, followed by Spain and then the Moorish again, the Spanish once again and then finally the British (This was 300 years ago). It all started 90 years ago when Spain began to claim that Gibraltar "rightfully" belonged to them despite the fact that Englan captured it fair and square. So this claim was really ignored, and Spain then went out of it's way to make the life's of the inhabitants of Gibraltar miserable. This was done by closing the frontier between Spain and Gibraltar and allowing no aircraft whatsoever to pass through Spanish air (not forgetting being responsible for not allowing Gibraltar to play in the world cup football league, we wouldn't get far but we shoul have the right to take part [img]smile.gif[/img] ). After a while Spain stopped and things returned to normal but now in recent years Spain's claim does not seem so outrageous anymore to England, more specifically Tony Blair. Recently there have been discussions (between Gibraltar, England and Spain) as to where the future of Gibraltar lies. Blair has now come to a conclusion that a joint sovereignty seems to be the only answer, and you know what, 97% of Gibraltar disagrees with him. Gibraltar wishes to remain British, despite the fact that we speak Spanish fluently and we live right beside Spain we are still British! Apparently Blair can only do this if he has the people of Gibraltar's consent, which he obviously doesn't. But he only needs our permssion if he wants to handle this democratically. I have a feeling that Gibraltar's just going to be another tool which he willuse in order to gain Spain's favour. Basically I feel like we're being betrayed because if Spain takes over Gibraltar than we do not only lose our way of life but we also lose lots of our rights as British citizens. Well that's my view on the situation, I'll be happy to hear yours.

Talthyr Malkaviel · 01-15-2002, 04:45 PM

Well, you'll be happy to know that quite a few Brits (including me) also disagree with Mr.Grin

Grojlach · 01-15-2002, 05:51 PM

I must admit I've never even heard of this matter - *shames* - but just a question... Indepencency of Gibraltar was never an issue?

Ezekial · 01-15-2002, 06:30 PM

I feel that it is completely wrong, and..knowing politicans..Blair will probably get rid of Gibraltar to further his aims in Europe.

I believe the only thing he should be able to do with Gibraltar is see if they want independance, not a transferal to a different government.

Sigmar · 01-16-2002, 02:26 PM

Independence, a last resort in my opinion but the majority of Gibraltar wouldn't mind being indepedent if they had to. (BTW my opinion doesn't count for much being 14 and all [img]smile.gif[/img] )

Smeagol · 01-16-2002, 03:22 PM

I completely sympathise with you and so does most the house of commons it would seem. Following a question on this issue in the commons Jack Straw was repeatedly flawed by many Conservatives, most the Lib Dems and even Labour back benchers. He came out looking like he'd gone 10 rounds with Lenox Lewis, the misery was increased when the only person to come to his aid was Mandelson. It was beutiful even Tory Flair had his usual air of smugness removed.

Great post by the way especially for a 14 year old. It got me interested anyway.

Durwyn · 01-16-2002, 03:39 PM

Hmm, very interesting matter actually, never heard of it heh, but thanks for the input! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Ezekial, isnt your name suppose to be Ezekiel? I remember hearing of that characters. I believe the right spelling is with the E.

Galadria1 · 01-17-2002, 08:41 AM

Being a student of British history, I loved reading about the Siege of Gibraltar in the 18th Century. I also recall reading about it in WWII and how it was a center of intrigue and fighting in the Med. Do you remember in Das Boot when they were killed trying to go past Gib? Nice to hear from someone who lives there. Sorry to hear that GB is 'Hong Konging' you guys. (sighs) Well, we gave back the Panama Canal, Who am I to talk?

Sigmar · 01-19-2002, 03:19 PM

Thanks for the support guys, nice to knoww there are people out there who understand the situation we're in.

Smeagol · 01-21-2002, 12:05 PM

Anytime Sigmar, be sure to keep us posted as coverage on Gibraltar over here is awful.

01-15-2002, 04:45 PM	#2
Talthyr Malkaviel Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: August 31, 2001 Location: Land of the Britons Age: 37 Posts: 3,224	Well, you'll be happy to know that quite a few Brits (including me) also disagree with Mr.Grin __________________ Resident cantankerous sorcerer of the Clan HADB<br />and Sorcerous Nuttella salesman of the O.R.T<br /> <br /><br />Say NO to the Trouser Tyranny! Can I drill you about this?

01-15-2002, 05:51 PM	#3
Grojlach Zartan Join Date: May 2, 2001 Location: Ulpia Noviomagus Batavorum Age: 43 Posts: 5,281	I must admit I've never even heard of this matter - shames - but just a question... Indepencency of Gibraltar was never an issue? __________________ [url]\"http://www.audioscrobbler.com/user/Grobbel/\" target=\"_blank\"> [img]\"http://www.denness.net/rpi/username/Grobbel\" alt=\" - \" /></a>

01-15-2002, 06:30 PM	#4
Ezekial The Magister Join Date: November 1, 2001 Location: Bournemouth, England Posts: 114	I feel that it is completely wrong, and..knowing politicans..Blair will probably get rid of Gibraltar to further his aims in Europe. I believe the only thing he should be able to do with Gibraltar is see if they want independance, not a transferal to a different government. __________________ I will strew your flesh upon the mountains, and fill the valleys with your carcass. I will drench the land even to the mountains with your flowing blood...<br />Ezekiel 32:5

01-16-2002, 03:22 PM	#6
Smeagol Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: January 12, 2002 Location: Surrey, England. Posts: 47	I completely sympathise with you and so does most the house of commons it would seem. Following a question on this issue in the commons Jack Straw was repeatedly flawed by many Conservatives, most the Lib Dems and even Labour back benchers. He came out looking like he'd gone 10 rounds with Lenox Lewis, the misery was increased when the only person to come to his aid was Mandelson. It was beutiful even Tory Flair had his usual air of smugness removed. Great post by the way especially for a 14 year old. It got me interested anyway. __________________ \"This is Preservation Month. I appreciate preservation. It\'s what you do when you run for President. You\'ve got to preserve.\"<p>President George W. Bush speaking during Perserverance month.<p>\"I see this glass not half empty, but half full... and more\"<p>President George Bush Sr.

01-16-2002, 03:39 PM	#7
Durwyn Elminster Join Date: January 4, 2002 Location: New York Posts: 415	Hmm, very interesting matter actually, never heard of it heh, but thanks for the input! [img]smile.gif[/img] Ezekial, isnt your name suppose to be Ezekiel? I remember hearing of that characters. I believe the right spelling is with the E. __________________ <b>-Durwyn Foehammer</b><p><i>\"Don\'t you go a-meddling with old stone or cold wights or prying in their houses, unless you be strong folk with hearts that never faulter.\"</i> - J.R.R. Tolkien

01-15-2002, 04:43 PM	#1
Sigmar Unicorn Join Date: May 17, 2001 Location: N/a Posts: 4,222	It's come out on Sky news but I doubt many people have heard this. Gibraltar has been a topic of much heated debate over the last ten years. I think a VERY brief history would clear things up a bit. Basically Gibraltar was first captured by the Moorish, followed by Spain and then the Moorish again, the Spanish once again and then finally the British (This was 300 years ago). It all started 90 years ago when Spain began to claim that Gibraltar "rightfully" belonged to them despite the fact that Englan captured it fair and square. So this claim was really ignored, and Spain then went out of it's way to make the life's of the inhabitants of Gibraltar miserable. This was done by closing the frontier between Spain and Gibraltar and allowing no aircraft whatsoever to pass through Spanish air (not forgetting being responsible for not allowing Gibraltar to play in the world cup football league, we wouldn't get far but we shoul have the right to take part [img]smile.gif[/img] ). After a while Spain stopped and things returned to normal but now in recent years Spain's claim does not seem so outrageous anymore to England, more specifically Tony Blair. Recently there have been discussions (between Gibraltar, England and Spain) as to where the future of Gibraltar lies. Blair has now come to a conclusion that a joint sovereignty seems to be the only answer, and you know what, 97% of Gibraltar disagrees with him. Gibraltar wishes to remain British, despite the fact that we speak Spanish fluently and we live right beside Spain we are still British! Apparently Blair can only do this if he has the people of Gibraltar's consent, which he obviously doesn't. But he only needs our permssion if he wants to handle this democratically. I have a feeling that Gibraltar's just going to be another tool which he willuse in order to gain Spain's favour. Basically I feel like we're being betrayed because if Spain takes over Gibraltar than we do not only lose our way of life but we also lose lots of our rights as British citizens. Well that's my view on the situation, I'll be happy to hear yours.

01-16-2002, 02:26 PM	#5
Sigmar Unicorn Join Date: May 17, 2001 Location: N/a Posts: 4,222	Independence, a last resort in my opinion but the majority of Gibraltar wouldn't mind being indepedent if they had to. (BTW my opinion doesn't count for much being 14 and all [img]smile.gif[/img] )

01-17-2002, 08:41 AM	#8
Galadria1 Zhentarim Guard Join Date: January 11, 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 369	Being a student of British history, I loved reading about the Siege of Gibraltar in the 18th Century. I also recall reading about it in WWII and how it was a center of intrigue and fighting in the Med. Do you remember in Das Boot when they were killed trying to go past Gib? Nice to hear from someone who lives there. Sorry to hear that GB is 'Hong Konging' you guys. (sighs) Well, we gave back the Panama Canal, Who am I to talk? __________________ Lady Galadria, a proud Cavalier of Keldorn\'s Order; Oh So Simple Marshmallow Woman of the ORT. Member, HADB<br /><br />\"Romance at short notice was her specialty.\" -Saki<br />Founder of the IW Branch of the Anti-Anomen Society

01-19-2002, 03:19 PM	#9
Sigmar Unicorn Join Date: May 17, 2001 Location: N/a Posts: 4,222	Thanks for the support guys, nice to knoww there are people out there who understand the situation we're in.

01-21-2002, 12:05 PM	#10
Smeagol Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: January 12, 2002 Location: Surrey, England. Posts: 47	Anytime Sigmar, be sure to keep us posted as coverage on Gibraltar over here is awful. __________________ \"This is Preservation Month. I appreciate preservation. It\'s what you do when you run for President. You\'ve got to preserve.\"<p>President George W. Bush speaking during Perserverance month.<p>\"I see this glass not half empty, but half full... and more\"<p>President George Bush Sr.

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