The U.S. as seen from a world perspective, politically. Your opinion please!

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: In my International Business class I am taking, I have been reading about stuff like this, and our debt. We as a nation, import more goods from other countries than we export. Therefore, we are not making money as fast as we are spending it.

Larry,

You are referring to the Balance of Trade (exports - imports). This is a component of the Balance of Payments Current account...I am not going to 'lecture' on this but in reality this is a minor component of our national debt.

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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Bossman of Better Funny Stuff.....of the Laughing Hyenas!

[domingo]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: In my International Business class I am taking, I have been reading about stuff like this, and our debt. We as a nation, import more goods from other countries than we export. Therefore, we are not making money as fast as we are spending it. An example is with the Microwave. It was invented in the US. The people in Tiawan began to study the microwave, intensly, so that within 50 yrs. time...we were buying the microwaves from them! No microwaves are made in the US because Tiawan makes them cheaper and better. If they were made in the US, we could not produce them as cost efficiently. The thing is that we have all these ideas, then we sell them to other countries, then the country produces them cheaper than we can, and then our American people buy the cheaper brand, instead of the US brand, which causes the US firms to go outta business. Now there is a big problem with other countries' labor policies. I will use the worst one that I have heard of, Pakistan. A Pakistanian family can sell their children into forced labor to a company, beginning at age 10, I believe. These kids must work in assembly of a product 6 days a week, 12 hours a day. If they do anything wrong, the punishment room is where they are sent, which is a torture chamber. Hot coals heat the room, and no food is given to the poor kid. Now, when the product is shipped to the US, we readily buy it, because it was the cheapest on the market, and of good quality. The reason for the cheapness of it is because the US minimum wage/hour is more than most countries pay their employees in one day.

Just my 2 cents on the national debt (I really hope Im not repeating what someone else has already said here) but first let me say that I am totally against sweatshops etc. ..... but it is the US spending on these outside resources that keep some other small countries economies alive ..... we can take the hit .... and if our debt keeps other economies out of the gutter then I am totally against the US reducing its spending from outside countries .... the US can handle a couple of failed businesses .... some countries can't as well ........ so in this light I don't think the debt is a bad thing at all (when kept in check) ..........


[This message has been edited by domingo (edited 09-07-2001).]

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by MagiK: Moradin I can see what you are saying but the fact is, that trillion dollar debt was actually built up through the 70's and 80's and while there was in fact a republican president in office durring the 80's, The HOUSE and SENATE were both dominated by the democrats for nearly 40 years and THEY are the ones responsible for the out of control growth and spending that took place. RR did spend on the Military BUT he implemented Massive tax cuts which actually generated MORE income in taxes because of the boom it caused in the economy. The government raked in more oney than ever during the 80's under Reagan, the problem is..the democrats spent it at an even larger record pace. We needed the build up in the military in the 80's we absolutley had to have it, and it was that build up which caused the colapse of the Soviet Empire and the end of the cold war, I think that was a major major good thing. (course Im biased since I was serving in the military during the cold war)

You are sounding like Rush Limbaugh.

Look, whatever else one might say about Ronald Reagan, the fact is that the National Debt had its biggest increase in history during his administration. It is pure bogus propaganda of the Reagan era worshippers that this was the fault of Congress.

The official budget records show, in no uncertain terms, that the budget bills passed by Congress were NOT larger than the proposed bills submitted by Reagan to Congress. You cannot claim that Congress spent more than Reagan had intended.

Under Reagan, the US underwent the biggest peacetime military buildup in the history of the country. That could not be done for free. It cost a LOT of money.

Whatever you might think about the necessity of the buildup (whether it was justified or not) the fact is that it was the prime reason for the huge increase in National Debt in the 80s.

[Larry_OHF]

Originally posted by Moridin: Larry, You are referring to the Balance of Trade (exports - imports). This is a component of the Balance of Payments Current account...I am not going to 'lecture' on this but in reality this is a minor component of our national debt.

I have only had three classes, so I do not know much about it all, but I believe you.
Thanks!
Hopefully, I will learn more about it in upcoming classes.



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Father of the wickedly cute child known as MaryBeth

[Moridin]

Originally posted by MagiK: Does anyone here remember what the US economy was like under the Democrat Jimmy Carter and the democrat controlled house and senate? Do you remember what the US reputation was overseas at the time? It was NOT a pretty sight let me tell you. I don't see the Dems as evil or even always wrong, I do like some of the ideas they have, and you do need a balance of power so that extremists on either side don't gain control.

MagiK...please do not be so quick to lay the blame on the Democrats (are you sure you are not a Republican ) The reason for the poor economy under Carter was partially due to the slow down of the US economy after the Vietnam War, partially due to the oil crisis of '73 (yes there was that long of lag), and partially due to a failing internation economy. Carter's treasury secretary at the time Micheal Blumenthal was all for higher interest rates to bring inflation under control, but Federal Reserve Chairman William Miller opposed raising interest rates (and remember it is the Fed that actually raises and lowers rates). Miller thought that inflation would peter out and left rates alone (a very stupid move on his part!). A very public debate ensued b/w Miller and Blumenthal, which led Carter to fire Blumenthal and replace him with Miller at Treasury. This led to the appointment of Paul Volcker as Fed Chairmen. Volcker was not a man to be bullied and took monetary policy into his own hands. This was fine with Carter and Miller. However Carter then lost the election to Reagan in 1980 and this led to a big change in governing of the economy. While Democratic Carter was willing to allow Volcker to reign in inflation, Reagan and his republican cabinet (NOT the democratic house and senate) insisted that the government needed to step in. Volcker was doing well at controlling inflation, through a type grip on the money supply. However Reagan introduced his tax cuts with an aim at increasing the money supply and therefore, idealy, boosting the economy out of the recession. So here you stand with Volcker putting the brakes on and Reagan stepping on the accelerator...not going to work. The tax cuts initiated by Reagan actually did the opposite as intended. They saturated the economy with money (higher income leads to higher prices) and inflation sored. Finally Reagan backed down and let Volcker do his thing to control inflation and we pulled out of the recession in Nov 1982...This is why the economy was bad, not because of a Democratic President or a Democratic congress!

Also, it is very well established the Federal Budget is prepared by the President and his cabinet and approved by Congress...and congress will usually approve the budget with little or no bickering and/or changes.


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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Bossman of Better Funny Stuff.....of the Laughing Hyenas!

Diog. guess we could argue that forever, personally I'll take a huge deficit over a very real and imminent chance for total thermonuclear war not to mention the tens of thousands of lives the cold war cost that never get reported. Every time a ship puts to sea, every time an army mobilizes there are deaths. Day to day operational deaths. With the end of the cold war and the reduction in Operations and the reduction in the military as a whole it saved lives. Yeah we still have nukes around but at least NOW there is no real threat of a total global war with them and that is a GOOD thing...if you aren't sure about that...then take my word for it.

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Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

Moradin, you are right, I really shouldn't be so hard on the Dems. I think right now I disgusted with them over Clinton and Condit and the fact that where I live (Baltimore-Washington corridor) that the press is so one sided that I have to side with the underdog...guess Im too contrary for my own good

Yeah Im sure Im not a republican because I am totally committed to the rights and freedoms of the individual, and I believe that people should be accountable, and held responsible for themseleves and their own welfare not reliant on some big brother watching over them protecting them from themselves...Seatbelt laws, helmet laws, gun laws all just really tick me off...I do NOT need a nanny....hehe sorry for the rant

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Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by MagiK: Diog. guess we could argue that forever, personally I'll take a huge deficit over a very real and imminent chance for total thermonuclear war not to mention the tens of thousands of lives the cold war cost that never get reported. Every time a ship puts to sea, every time an army mobilizes there are deaths. Day to day operational deaths. With the end of the cold war and the reduction in Operations and the reduction in the military as a whole it saved lives. Yeah we still have nukes around but at least NOW there is no real threat of a total global war with them and that is a GOOD thing...if you aren't sure about that...then take my word for it.

Remember the great Peace Dividend that was going to free up so much money after the collapse of the Soviet Union? Whatever happened to it? Hell, even now there is talk of increasing the size of the military again.

LOL -- this thread has produced many topics that deserve their own threads. Perhaps this is one of them

Btw, Magik -- I don't need to take your word for it. I remember it very well. I am not much younger than you. Was born in 1966.

Diog I believe that great peace dividend has actully been used, check out the national budget..its grown way way up...AND we still produced a SURPLUS...and yes there is in fact an actual surplus this year. No there is no such thing as a "social security lockbox" and yes if you give the money back to the people that it actually belongs to the surplus will shrink.

LOL sheesh You single Diog? I have a friend who would just love you

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Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by MagiK: Diog I believe that great peace dividend has actully been used, check out the national budget..its grown way way up...AND we still produced a SURPLUS...and yes there is in fact an actual surplus this year. No there is no such thing as a "social security lockbox" and yes if you give the money back to the people that it actually belongs to the surplus will shrink. LOL sheesh You single Diog? I have a friend who would just love you

Wow, the issue of tax refunds and social security both thrown into this thread. LOL, this could be the mother of all new spinoff threads I have been thinking of starting new threads on those very topics for the past several days. Perhaps later, unless you want to do the honors

No, I am not single. Married, with two children. But it's always nice to know there are more people out there who would "just love me."