what a great way to get your point accross ....NOT!!

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

All I have to say is what a great *rolls eyes* way to show how accepting and loving your God is. People like this are the reason why Christians get a bum rap. Read on and tell me what you think.

Posted on Wed, Jun. 12, 2002 Baptist pastor's words shock Muslim leaders By JIM JONES Special to the Star-Telegram ST. LOUIS - A former Southern Baptist Convention president stirred interfaith tumult when he described Muhammad, Islam's revered founder, as a "demon-possessed pedophile." The Rev. Jerry Vines made the comments Monday night at the Southern Baptist Pastors Conference, drawing strong denunciation from Muslim leaders Tuesday when his statements were publicized. But the Rev. Jack Graham, the new president of the Southern Baptist Convention, and the Rev. James Merritt, outgoing president, supported Vines. Hodan Hassan, a spokeswoman for the Washington-based Council for American-Islamic Relations, said Vines' comments were divisive and inaccurate. "This kind of hate-filled rhetoric is very shocking," Hassan said. "It is especially surprising to see it coming from someone of that stature making such a statement concerning a religion that is practiced by one-fifth of the world's population." Vines, senior pastor of the First Baptist Church of Jacksonville, Fla., deplored the rising tide of pluralism. "Today, people are saying all religions are the same," Vines said. "They would have us believe Islam is just as good as Christianity. But I'm here to tell you, ladies and gentlemen, that Islam is not as good as Christianity. Christianity was founded by the virgin-born Lord Jesus Christ. Islam was founded by Muhammad, a demon-possessed pedophile who had 12 wives and his last one was a 9-year-old girl." Muslims maintain that they are the descendants of the Judeo-Christian progenitor Abraham and serve the same God as Jews and Christians, even though they call him Allah. But Vines said: "Allah is not Jehovah. Jehovah is not going to turn you into a terrorist that'll try to bomb people and take the lives of thousands and thousands of people." Hassan said, "I would hope that responsible people of the Southern Baptist Convention would deliver a strong denunciation of Reverend Vines' comments." But during a news conference Tuesday, Graham quoted from Unveiling Islam, which was written by two former Muslims who are professors at conservative Baptist theological schools. Authors Ergun Caner, an assistant professor at Criswell College in Dallas, and Emir Caner, an assistant professor at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, N.C., said Muhammad had numerous concubines and 13 wives, including the 9-year-old girl, Graham said. Syad Ahsani of Arlington, Southwest regional chairman of the American Muslim Alliance, said Muhammad was betrothed to the child, which was a common practice; however, such marriages weren't consummated until children reached adolescence. Hassan said it is not known when Muhammad's marriage was consummated. Muhammad was involved in polygamy, but so were early Jewish leaders, others said. Selod Faroog, an orthopedic surgeon and an Islamic spokesman in Fort Worth, said: "People who can't face the truth come out and make accusations like this. If Muhammad was heavily involved in multiple wives, he wouldn't have had time to spend all night praying like tradition says." Reaction to Vines' comment came as the annual meeting formally began with about 9,600 messengers, or delegates. President Bush addressed the Baptists by satellite Tuesday morning, praising them for their belief that religion should not be separated from political life. Later, 12 gay activists from the California-based SoulForce, perennial protesters at the convention, were arrested as they tried to disrupt Merritt's convention message. Some protesters shouted, "Please hear us. ... God loves his gay and lesbian children," before they were carried away by police and charged with trespassing motivated by religious discrimination. Outside, 37 people were arrested when they refused to obey a police order not to turn away from the America's Center. They were charged with failing to obey a police officer. Merritt worked the protesters into his sermon, saying they are examples of the nation's "culture war" going on in the nation. "We love homosexuals," he said. "God loves homosexuals, but he loves them too much to leave them homosexuals." Still, some Southern Baptists said Vines' comments could hurt efforts for Muslims and Christians to work together. "That language is so offensive that it tears down any bridge we might have to speak to Muslims about Christianity," said Bruce Prescott, executive director of Oklahoma Mainstream Baptists, a moderate group. Even some conservatives who agree with Vines' assessment had reservations about his statements. Richard Land, director of the Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, said, "I agree with Dr. Vines: There is no way to salvation except through Jesus Christ." But Vines' language differed from what he would use, Land said. Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., said that Muhammad is a complex figure and that he did not know enough about his life to comment on the pedophile accusation. Baptists have angered other religious groups with their statements and tactics. Some Baptist congregations prayed for the conversion of Muslims to Christianity during Ramadan, a period for religious observances in Islam. Baptists distributed literature on how to convert Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, which they describe as "cults," in 2000. In 1999, some Baptists publicly called for prayers during Jewish holy days for conversion of Jews to Christianity. In other action Tuesday, Baptist moderates asked that Southern Baptist missionaries who were hired under older Baptist Faith and Message Statements be allowed to continue serving even if they refuse to affirm the newer, more controversial 2000 Baptist Faith and Message. The requests were referred to the International Mission Board and the North American Mission Board, effectively killing them. Another motion asked the Southern Baptist Convention to recognize only one state convention in each state. Texas, Virginia and Missouri have competing state conventions. If approved, it could severely affect the Baptist General Convention of Texas, which is controlled by moderates. An alternative convention, the Southern Baptists of Texas, led by conservatives, is strongly supported by the national Southern Baptist Convention. Staff writer Brett Hoffman contributed to this report.

[Larry_OHF]

I just wanted to put in my post that I do not condone that man's idiodic words that are biast and not founded upon anything except his own fearoand personal misunderstanding (and intolerance) of other religions and beliefs.

By the way, I belong to that so-called "Mormon cult" he so fondly likes to spit at me.

[khazadman]

ooooo,he offended them!so?the moslems have been heaping scorn and ridicule on christianityjudaism,hinduism,and buddism.you name the religion of your choice,they've insulted it.did you know that if you seek to convert a moslem in a moslem country you could face a prison sentence,or worse,death.
but notice he didn't call for anybodies deaths?the moslems are different in that respect.if you write a book that insults jesus do you know what will happen?leftist university pinheads will love it and you'll piss off christians.but that's all.ask salman rushdie what happens when you write something that is insulting to islam.is he able to go out without a body guard?
so as you can tell,i don't care if they feel insulted.

[khazadman]

hey larry!i know why he doesn't like the mormon church.too much of that clean living.no partying saturday night and going to church with a hangover.baptists are a strange bunch.i know because i was raised one.

[/)eathKiller]

Let's face it they've been persecuting things for being differint for centuries, it was that kind of hate that caused such things as the cruisades to end up happened. They are more of the non-conformist christian sect IMO...

You all know I like to play devils advocate, but really IF Mohammad did have many wives and one of them was 9 years old and IF he had sexual relations with her, then by Western cultural standards, he was a pedophile....as for the demon possesed, errr no Idea where he got that one from.

The way this bozo made his point wether technically correct or not, was not PC and was rather impolite and rude. Im not sure that even a Southern Baptist can find anything in the new testement about having to be rude to others.

[flibulzbuth]

Good ol' fascism will never die. Intolerance is slowly but surely rising in different forms throughout Europe and North America. 9-11 induced public fear and nationalism is easy to exploit.

ooooo,he offended them!so?the moslems have been heaping scorn and ridicule on christianityjudaism,hinduism,and buddism.you name the religion of your choice,they've insulted it.did you know that if you seek to convert a moslem in a moslem country you could face a prison sentence,or worse,death. but notice he didn't call for anybodies deaths?the moslems are different in that respect.if you write a book that insults jesus do you know what will happen?leftist university pinheads will love it and you'll piss off christians.but that's all.ask salman rushdie what happens when you write something that is insulting to islam.is he able to go out without a body guard? so as you can tell,i don't care if they feel insulted.

Khazadman, there are at least as many different "islam schools" as there are christian churches and beliefs. We can't put them all in the same basket. Only a very few of these are violent and intolerant. "Moslem" countries? you mean islamic dictatorships? Not at all the same thing.
Beside, if someone pisses on your lawn doesn't give you the right to piss on his.
Mmmm... even drunk i don't find your hatred funny Khazadman... don't know why i even bother to reply.

[Deathcow]

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: "Today, people are saying all religions are the same," Vines said. "They would have us believe Islam is just as good as Christianity. But I'm here to tell you, ladies and gentlemen, that Islam is not as good as Christianity. Christianity was founded by the virgin-born Lord Jesus Christ. Islam was founded by Muhammad, a demon-possessed pedophile who had 12 wives and his last one was a 9-year-old girl."

LOL! thats the funniest thing ive heard all day! ....too bad he was serious about it...

i hope someone kicks this guy in the beanbag, if he posted that on a forum hed be labelled "troll" [img]smile.gif[/img]

[khazadman]

Khazadman, there are at least as many different "islam schools" as there are christian churches and beliefs. We can't put them all in the same basket. Only a very few of these are violent and intolerant. "Moslem" countries? you mean islamic dictatorships? Not at all the same thing.

well let's see.sufi,shia,suni,and wahabi.see,i do know that there are different brances of islam.but on average,they are all about as intolerant as the catholic church was at the time of the crusades.

Beside, if someone pisses on your lawn doesn't give you the right to piss on his. Mmmm... even drunk i don't find your hatred funny Khazadman... don't know why i even bother to reply.

hate?did i say that islam was evil?or that the followers of islam are sub-human beasts?no,i said they had no room to complain about some baptist loony talking trash.a trash talking loony who doesn't do his research.