01-22-2003, 11:37 AM | #131 | |
Galvatron
Join Date: January 22, 2002
Location: california wine country
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“This is an impressive crowd, the haves and the have mores. <br />Some people call you the elite. <br />I call you my base.”<br />~ George W. Bush (2000) |
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01-22-2003, 11:40 AM | #132 |
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The way I learned it, the idea that there is a "place" called hell is not the generally accepted notion in most modern christian beliefs, Hell is being defined as being denied the face of god for eternity, in otherwords when you die, you do not end up with god. Again this may be more jesuit heresy though [img]smile.gif[/img]
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01-22-2003, 11:48 AM | #133 | |
Apophis
Join Date: July 10, 2001
Location: By a big blue lake, Canada
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01-22-2003, 12:14 PM | #134 | |
Takhisis Follower
Join Date: April 30, 2001
Location: szép Magyarország (well not right now)
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The problem with this thread is I have constantly mixed my beliefs with generally accepted beliefs etc. I'm often not very happy with my life at all but this has no bearing on whether I believe or not and sometimes it seems like vice-versa as well. Among other reasons, believing makes sense so I do. I mentioned happiness saying that people who believe might be happier that's all. That's not a very funny sarcastic comment about people studying evolution not wanting to know about it if they don't believe. I don't know what your basis is for saying that. And I don't at all see what point you are trying to make about it being strange that God is not mentioned in scientific research? Why would he be? While science and God can co-exist the aim of science is to find a scientific not a supernatural explanation for things. Either that was a very mixed-up post you made or I'm a dumbass for not seeing your basis and logic.
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Too set in his ways to ever relate If he could set that aside, there'd be heaven to pay But weathered and aged, time swept him to grave Love conquers all? Damn, I'd say that area's gray |
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01-22-2003, 01:11 PM | #135 |
Manshoon
Join Date: November 11, 2001
Location: couch
Age: 52
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I do not have enough information or personal knowledge about any particular religion, so I cannot argue specifics. In general, most of the people I know, who follow a religion, are good people. However, I believe they would be good people regardless of their religion. Do religions make someone a good person? Maybe, but if that were entirely true everyone who was religious would be a good person; I think we can all agree that this is not true. If you kill in the name of a religion, in most people’s opinion, then you are a bad person.
I believe religion and faith is not something that can be dictated. The first definition of faith in webster’s third is: unquestioning belief that dose not require proof or evidence. How can you teach someone about something without the evidence to back it up; in my opinion you cannot. You can teach someone why you believe in something or why others might believe in something, but you cannot teach someone to believe just because you do. The argument about an after life is also something I believe cannot be taught. Again, there is no evidence to back it up. The only way to find out what happens when you die is to die. As such, it makes it difficult to then relate to others what has happened. [img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img] I am a father and I teach my children to be good people. That includes being tolerant of what other people believe, even if you personally think they are wrong. I will not push any religion on my children, however I will support whatever decisions they make in the future.
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01-22-2003, 01:20 PM | #136 | |
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
Join Date: October 29, 2001
Location: North Carolina
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Grungi - I'm afraid you may have misinterpreted the last statement of my first post. You claimed that I said God would let you into Heaven because you have lived a good life. That is not true. I said that God judges the person's heart. You say you are a good person and live a good life....I'm sure that's true. But then again, I don't know anybody who claims to be a bad person living a bad life. Everyone thinks they are "good" in their own way. Living a "good life" according to your standards is not enough. Living a "good life" by God's standards is what counts...and even then, it is up to God alone to decide if your life, actions, and deeds have been "good enough".
When I said that God judges a person's heart, I was talking more along the lines of someone like Ghandi. He rejected "organized religion" because of the bigotry and hypocrisy he found in some churches - yet he lived a life that mirrored the teachings of Jesus. Now, according to my interpretation of the Bible - these good works by themselves would NOT be enough to get him into Heaven...only God's Grace could do that. And I acknowledge the possibility that God may have judged Ghandi based on his heart and on his works rather than on his religious affiliation. In a way, I'm just "hedging my own bets" about the absoluteness of my previous stance. . Quote:
I love my children very dearly, but I will still punish them if they disobey me...and I will punish them severely if the incident warrants it. That doesn't mean that I love them any less (although THEY claim it does ). The same reasoning applies to God. He has told us of His Love and offer of eternal Salvation. He has also told us the penalty for rejecting His offer. The choice, however, is left to the individual. Timber - I have a great deal of respect for your views, despite the difference in our personal theologies. However, I do find phrases like "looking for something to latch onto" offensive and demeaning. I have also been called "weak-minded" by atheists, because I cannot accept the "horrible reality" of everyday life without the promise of "something better". Both of these statements are blantantly false and extremely arrogant (IMHO). The implication is that you and other atheists are "mentally superior" to poor, weak-minded Christians who simply can't cope with the big, bad world without latching onto some imaginary being for a cosmic security blanket. I understand that the statements aren't intended to be arrogant or demeaning, but that is how they come across. I also acknowledge that Christians can be just as arrogant when they insist that "you really DO believe in God, you just won't admit it to yourself" or when they feel sad for the simplistically naive view of atheists (as mentioned in the article Roken provided a link to). I'm not angered or upset by your remarks, TL, because I know any offense I may feel was purely unintentional. I'm just trying to point out how they sound from this side.
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[img]\"http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/cerek/cerektsrsig.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Cerek the Calmth |
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01-22-2003, 01:36 PM | #137 | |
Takhisis Follower
Join Date: April 30, 2001
Location: szép Magyarország (well not right now)
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About afterlife - technically there IS evidence. Well in a court of law a witness account is evidence right? Correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, in the same way there are MANY accounts of people who have been diagnosed as clinically dead but their heart restarted minutes or hours later. I have read a book about this. They all give remarkably similar accounts of feeling at great peace and seeing a light at the end of a tunnel. This does not sound like there's nothing does it? Well place as much weight on this as you want, just saying that technically there is evidence if you call 1st person accounts evidence. Oh and another good post Cerek. [ 01-22-2003, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: Vaskez ]
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Too set in his ways to ever relate If he could set that aside, there'd be heaven to pay But weathered and aged, time swept him to grave Love conquers all? Damn, I'd say that area's gray |
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01-22-2003, 01:38 PM | #138 |
40th Level Warrior
Join Date: July 11, 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
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I have two things to interject at this point:
1. The title of this thread is a HUGE misnomer. 2. My God can eat your God for breakfast. ALL HAIL CTHULU!!!!! [img]graemlins/hidesbehindsofa.gif[/img] |
01-22-2003, 01:40 PM | #139 |
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
Join Date: October 29, 2001
Location: North Carolina
Age: 61
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Hunter - Several pages back, you asked about the different versions of the Bible and Qu'ran. Yorick pointed out that these were different translations rather than completely different versions...but your original question is still a valid one.
Let me turn the question around a bit. You study martial arts. How do you know the current style you are studying is the "right" one or the "best" one? There are hundreds of different styles (and variations of styles) in existence. How can you truly know you have chosen the best of these options? You say your training and physical abilities have helped you survive many hostile encounters. That may be true, but the results could have been the same with an entirely different fighting style...and for every move you can do, someone from an opposing school has a countermove. So how do you know who is right???? The answer is that you choose what suits your personal style the best. The same applies to the different "variations" of Religion in general, and Christianity specifically. I have many good friends that belong to different denominations than I. There is a plethora of "common ground" between our belief systems, but there are also some key differences. How do I reconcile these differences? I don't! I have no right to say that somebody else's relationship with God and His Holy Will is "less right" than my own. Just like you can't say your chosen style is inherently superior to somebody elses.
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[img]\"http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/cerek/cerektsrsig.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Cerek the Calmth |
01-22-2003, 01:44 PM | #140 | |
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
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2. {haha}I played Call of Cthulu in college. My characters all died quickly and often. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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[img]\"http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/cerek/cerektsrsig.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Cerek the Calmth |
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