What do you know about Bush? - Page 3

lord_gabriel · 12-14-2001, 05:06 AM

...well, maybe - yes. I think that some kind of 'dictatorship of reason' would server best. Democracy, as it is nowadays, has the big disadvantage, that everyone is allowed to vote. As there are many people who are not familiar with politics, have no clue of economy at all -- these are the people who elect politicans for questianable reasons, maybe they like his face, his charisma or merely like his statements - which are usually quiet exaggerated. So normally the winner is not the person with the greatest qualifiction but the person with the greatest popularity...

...I have to admit that i do not know a way to avoid this, though. Our constitution says every one is to be treaded equally regardless of origin, religion, gender a.s.o, and i actually like this special paragraph - but i don't think, that democracy works very well...

Barry the Sprout · 12-14-2001, 05:39 AM

I must admit I have a problem with saying "This is not a good reason for voting" to people LG. Who decides what is a good reason.

When you are saying that you must vote for *these* reasons you are one step away from saying that you must vote for *my* reasons. And then you are only one step away from saying you must vote for *my* candidate. Not good at all I think.

Democracry needs to serve the people, at present it doesn't do that IMO. But that doesn't mean we can give up on it just yet. I admit that I think we need some kind of revolution (preferably peaceful) but it will not come for a while as I have said repeatedly. And when it does I think we need some kind of democracy in operation - that is where the USSR went wrong IMO. It didn't listen to the people once in power.

Once capitalism is abolished then in theory there will be no need for a political state as an entity. However this is looking into the very, very, distant future.

KHaN · 12-14-2001, 07:20 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Barry the Sprout:
Once capitalism is abolished then in theory there will be no need for a political state as an entity. However this is looking into the very, very, distant future.

I'm not really sure people CAN "do away" with capitalism. It's not so much a way of greed per se as it is a competition between one body vs another body. It doesn't matter if you believe in Creation or Evolution (or something else) history through written record clearly shows that man has been in competition for resources since he discovered there was someone else that wanted what he had (ie private ownership). Look at the animal kingdom the competition between preditors for land rites sometimes becomes 'kill or be killed'.
My point is that through "free enterprise" we have developed a very advanced way (ie capitalism) to compete for anything and everything. Like it or not human nature is about survival (namely self-preservation)...and that only includes others when self-preservation is overridden by intense emotions or isn't a concern. Capitalism is here to stay because of our deepest ingrained human beliefs. Do away with competition for resources and then I might say 'maybe'. With an ever increasing population on this planet though I say 'not a chance'!

Silver Cheetah · 12-14-2001, 07:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:

And grow beards?

I see Dramnek has a hitherto unappreciated sense of humour.. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Ronn_Bman · 12-14-2001, 07:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Silver Cheetah:

I see Dramnek has a hitherto unappreciated sense of humour.. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Uh Oh, Cheeta is back! Everybody straighten up and act like we haven't been running rough shod in the war forum [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

J/K

Glad your back, did you catch up on your work?

12-14-2001, 05:06 AM	#21
lord_gabriel Manshoon Join Date: November 29, 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 150	...well, maybe - yes. I think that some kind of 'dictatorship of reason' would server best. Democracy, as it is nowadays, has the big disadvantage, that everyone is allowed to vote. As there are many people who are not familiar with politics, have no clue of economy at all -- these are the people who elect politicans for questianable reasons, maybe they like his face, his charisma or merely like his statements - which are usually quiet exaggerated. So normally the winner is not the person with the greatest qualifiction but the person with the greatest popularity... ...I have to admit that i do not know a way to avoid this, though. Our constitution says every one is to be treaded equally regardless of origin, religion, gender a.s.o, and i actually like this special paragraph - but i don't think, that democracy works very well... __________________ ...walk in the light..!<br /><br />Lord Gabriel<br /><br /> Ich bin der Geist, der stets verneint!<br />Und das mit Recht; denn alles, was entsteht,<br />Ist wert, das es zugrunde geht;<br />Drum besser wär\'s, daß nichts entstünde. <br />So ist denn alles, was ihr Sünde,<br />Zerstörung, kurz das Böse nennt,<br />Mein eigentliches Element.

12-14-2001, 05:39 AM	#22
Barry the Sprout White Dragon Join Date: October 19, 2001 Location: York, UK. Age: 41 Posts: 1,815	I must admit I have a problem with saying "This is not a good reason for voting" to people LG. Who decides what is a good reason. When you are saying that you must vote for these reasons you are one step away from saying that you must vote for my reasons. And then you are only one step away from saying you must vote for my candidate. Not good at all I think. Democracry needs to serve the people, at present it doesn't do that IMO. But that doesn't mean we can give up on it just yet. I admit that I think we need some kind of revolution (preferably peaceful) but it will not come for a while as I have said repeatedly. And when it does I think we need some kind of democracy in operation - that is where the USSR went wrong IMO. It didn't listen to the people once in power. Once capitalism is abolished then in theory there will be no need for a political state as an entity. However this is looking into the very, very, distant future. __________________ [img]\"http://img1.ranchoweb.com/images/sproutman/certwist.gif\" alt=\" - \" /><br /><br /><i>\"And the angels all pallid and wan,<br />Uprising, unveiling, affirm,<br />That the play is the tragedy, man,<br />And its hero the Conquerer Worm.\"</i><br /> - Edgar Allan Poe

12-14-2001, 07:20 AM	#23
KHaN Drow Warrior Join Date: June 21, 2001 Location: the not to distant future, Posts: 250	quote: Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: Once capitalism is abolished then in theory there will be no need for a political state as an entity. However this is looking into the very, very, distant future. I'm not really sure people CAN "do away" with capitalism. It's not so much a way of greed per se as it is a competition between one body vs another body. It doesn't matter if you believe in Creation or Evolution (or something else) history through written record clearly shows that man has been in competition for resources since he discovered there was someone else that wanted what he had (ie private ownership). Look at the animal kingdom the competition between preditors for land rites sometimes becomes 'kill or be killed'. My point is that through "free enterprise" we have developed a very advanced way (ie capitalism) to compete for anything and everything. Like it or not human nature is about survival (namely self-preservation)...and that only includes others when self-preservation is overridden by intense emotions or isn't a concern. Capitalism is here to stay because of our deepest ingrained human beliefs. Do away with competition for resources and then I might say 'maybe'. With an ever increasing population on this planet though I say 'not a chance'! __________________

12-14-2001, 07:22 PM	#24
Silver Cheetah Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: July 26, 2001 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 1,781	quote: Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: And grow beards? I see Dramnek has a hitherto unappreciated sense of humour.. [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________

12-14-2001, 07:46 PM	#25
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 57 Posts: 5,177	quote: Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: I see Dramnek has a hitherto unappreciated sense of humour.. [img]smile.gif[/img] Uh Oh, Cheeta is back! Everybody straighten up and act like we haven't been running rough shod in the war forum [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] J/K Glad your back, did you catch up on your work? __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

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