The American Constitution - Second Amendment....

[Yorick]

Mark II of the horse that wouldn't die... Ironically resurrected by Oblivion.

Original was here.

[ 05-31-2003, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Yorick]

This was my last post:

Since when did empire = evil? We do have two words that describe an evil empire and they are "evil" and "empire". Whether America is "evil" is a totally different discussion.

An Empire is amoral. It is simply a state of being. It is important to be self aware and realise what one IS however. Honesty in self evaluation is paramount. The pitfalls of EMPIRES are to be avoided. One can look at the aforementioned Athenian and Roman Empires and LEARN by seeing the similarities to America.

Athens especially. The Athenian Empire was a democracy that had a tiny area, yet is called an Empire. It ruled a varity of states that were initially allies. If an "ally" chose to be anything other than a democracy, Athens would invade and reinstall a "Athens friendly" democratic government.

Sound familiar?

[IronDragon]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis:

The US has an incredible, nearly impecable, history of giving back or otherwise releasing territories that come under its control.

I dare you to tell this to the Chippewa, Ojibwa, Sioux, Algonquin, Navaho, Apache, Lakota, Muskhogean, Cheyenne, Cherokee, Seminole, and the hundred or so other Native American tribes that have also benefited from the United States impeccable history.

[Skunk]

What about Guantanamo Bay? I believe that a small country called Cuba is still asking for its territory back...

[Yorick]

Originally posted by IronDragon: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: The US has an incredible, nearly impecable, history of giving back or otherwise releasing territories that come under its control.

I dare you to tell this to the Chippewa, Ojibwa, Sioux, Algonquin, Navaho, Apache, Lakota, Muskhogean, Cheyenne, Cherokee, Seminole, and the hundred or so other Native American tribes that have also benefited from the United States impeccable history. [/QUOTE]Exactly.

[Azred]

Mistakes made during a much less enlightened period of history. Unfortunate, but those events are in the past, you know. Study them to avoid such mistakes in the future, but hardly something about which to remain feeling guilty after 100 years.

No, I'm not going to invest the time required to read through the original thread, so I'll simply ask "what do Native American tribes have to do with the Second Amendment?"

So America may qualify as an empire. What is the problem? [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

[Stormymystic]

Originally posted by IronDragon: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: The US has an incredible, nearly impecable, history of giving back or otherwise releasing territories that come under its control.

I dare you to tell this to the Chippewa, Ojibwa, Sioux, Algonquin, Navaho, Apache, Lakota, Muskhogean, Cheyenne, Cherokee, Seminole, and the hundred or so other Native American tribes that have also benefited from the United States impeccable history. [/QUOTE]now that the post do not seem overwhelming, I will join in

Yes I would anyone to explain why my Great Great Grandmother did not get to live in her Tribal territory she was a princess of the Cherokee tribe, and yet that title was made useless by the United States goverment and because of this, there is only a small desert land that they may call home now and not the land of the free like the white man...sorry but that is the truth
if a Native American wants to move out on his/her own, then they have to leave the appointed lands from the goverment and then they are going to have to deal with the fact that what was once their land will never be theirs again, and all the Rituals that was once preformed by Native Americans are now regulated by the goverment to me this is BS and should not happen, did you know that most of the appointed lands are either dessert or swamp lands?and that the burial sites are no longer deemed sacred? and that the goverment has dug up most of the remains of our Native ancetors?

Originally posted by Azred: Mistakes made during a much less enlightened period of history. Unfortunate, but those events are in the past, you know.no they are not in the past, sorry to bring this up, but Native Americans are still treated with out respect by the goverment do you consider that they work for less than minimum wage everyday? Study them to avoid such mistakes in the future, but hardly something about which to remain feeling guilty after 100 years.if people would forget their history, then the same mistakes will be repeated, and even now the same mistakes are being repeated by the goverment perhaps you should go to a web site about Native Americans and see how they still have to live No, I'm not going to invest the time required to read through the original thread, so I'll simply ask "what do Native American tribes have to do with the Second Amendment?" They should have the same rights as everyone else, regardless of race creed or nationality, is that not what this coountry is sypposed to be based on? So America may qualify as an empire. What is the problem? [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

the problem is that "white" people capitalize off of other races

[ 06-02-2003, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: Stormymystic ]

Do you like living here?

Do you make enough money to support yourself living here?

I know if I moved to another country and didn't like their constitution or laws and I wasn't generating the funds to support myself I'd have two choices. 1) Work to become a citizen of that country so that I could then work to change the laws and the constitution (not like ly to work here in America where the almighty dollar is more important than The Almighty.

or 2) go someplace else.


Regarding part of your original post:

Some people believe that without firearms they are more vulnerable to being a victim of violence and better able to protect themselves should they have to.

Taking away a man's ability to defend himself and his property does not make him free.

Further, America learned from the British how to install and uninstall "workable" governments via "colonization" didn't it? (you are welcome to correct me if I am wrong). It has been a working method of "democratic republics" for how long now?

Besides, man will cause his own demise eventually, and yours too! Does it make that big of a difference it is on American soil?

If so I'd be taking another look at option #2 above.

Originally quoted by Stormymystic: the problem is that "white" people capitalize off of other races

Now it really isn't fair to blame the "white people" because Europeans had the desire to own everything...the problem is greed. Native American tribes killed members of other tribes or obliterated some tribes completely for food, territory, and goods before the Europeans showed up.

It has been capitalist societies who have taken greed to its farthest reaches and the early settlers in this country even had help from some Native tribes with the destruction of others to remove them from wanted lands. The downfall for those natives was that those they helped fed them empty promises...deceit is older than the "white man" too.

Don't get me wrong, I am part Apache and think what my Native Ancestors suffered at the hands of my European ancestors is deplorable but I won't blame "white people" for capitalizing on the profit they tend to gain by trade any sooner than I would blame them for creating deceit.

Not all white people are lying capitalist pigs who are looking to take you for your money or property and some of the people who are aren't "white". [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Iron_Ranger]

Wasn't it the Spanish the first here anyway? Well not the first here, the first to colonize it I should say. Spanish arent considered white are they?

I havent read hardly any of the first thread on the topic so this might have already been covered, sorry if it has.