your friend.. God

[Chewbacca]

http://www.spiritualchallenge.com/consciousness.html

'Christ Consciousness' This is a term which can be loosely applied to the philosophical interpretation of the message of Jesus for our personal development in raising our consciousness. It is a term found in the later scholastic studies of the Historical Jesus movement and the work of the scholars of the Jesus Seminar. Generally the concept of 'Christ Consciousness' is applied to that belief in the Cosmic consciousness that is the interconnectedness of all life forms within our universe that are fueled by the God spark within that was manifested so well in the magnetic spiritual personality of Jesus Christ two thousand years ago. It is important to understand however that Christ refers to the 'anointed one' and not to the person of Jesus of Nazareth. By using the term 'Christ Consciousness' in the climate of thinking prevailing among spiritually minded persons at the start of the Millennium, it is shown that we are all 'anointed one's' possessing our own divinity directly related to the power of the God source. If the message of Jesus was anything like that portrayed in the fascinating and important book Two Thousand Years Later ... written by International Travel Lecturer and Cambridge theologian Peter Longley, then Jesus can be seen as a human Master who pointed us in a direction which others have now taken up. It transfers the unique divinity imposed on Jesus by Christianity to a more general and philosophically acceptable concept seen in the merging of Eastern and Western philosophies associated with today's globalism. It encourages a belief in our own divinity and our inner relationship to the God source that links us with all life forms of the universe - our cosmic consciousness.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Yorick: ???????? 1. I never belittled your beliefs. I challenged your understanding of the English language. Big difference.

Quite frankly I found your tone condesending and intellectually snobbish. It is sad you dont realize how disrespectful I think you were. I understand the english language grows and adapts and that many concepts can be described by the same word. A rose by any other name smells the same.

2. "Karma" was and is a Hindu worldview. Buddhism adopted it because it is a reaction against Hindu values, but is still within the Hindu worldview of cyclic rebirth and pantheism. As such it does not fit within Christianity at all because of it's specific reincarnational effects, however, a "softer" definition - which I actually allowed for in my original use of the word - limits it to a universal "cause and effect" barometer. (Please note this Kathen)

Another generalization about Christianity, Some schools of thought put Reincarnation as a concept with-in Christianity, but one that has been edited out over the ages. It is hard to keep the flock in line with fear of eternal damnation if an alternate concept exists that is far more patient and forgiving.

Once again you put Karma in the pidgeonhole as soley a Hindu/Buddism concept. I dont see where you qualify karma as a "cause and effect barometer" in your original use of the word: "Karma and religious Law contain guilt"

The broader, original, and more approriate defintion of Karma, that is the law of cause and effect, is common to many religions, spritual traditions, and philiosophies, including Christianity, Wicca, Buddism, and Hindu to name a few. In science, Newton called it the the 3rd law iirc.

This definiton is rooted in the 6th axiom of hermetic philosophy that dates back at least 5,000 years. Like I have already said, variations of this axiom exist in many religions including Christianity i.e. You reap what ye sow

3. You have not offered an alternate definition of the word "Karma" merely challenged my ability to use it in a sentence along with Law, in terms of ascribing guilt. Whether the soft definition or the accurate definition is used, the fact remains, if something keeps a record of right and wrong actions, it ascribes guilt. This is not something you've addressed.

I have clearly offered an "alternate" exansive defintion of the word. As far as guilt goes, the human emotional mechanism is perfectly capable of keeping a "record" of guilt, Karma doesnt create this guilt, human actions do. The cause and effect (Karmic) nature of feeling guilty about something is evident to anyone who has ever done something "wrong" and then have it bother their conscience. The cause and effect (Karmic) nature of becoming free from guilt by practicing forgivness is self-evidient.

Karma is a neutral function of nature, it does not "contain" guilt.

4.In keeping with my challenging your use of ENGLISH, not your beliefs, I brought up your use of the word "Christ". Again, you speak of "Annointed One consciousness". I am not sure if you intend to mean what you say when you use the word. If I am not mistaked you mean "Divine" do you not? One's inner divinity? One's divine consciouness? What's wrong with using a correct word? Why use "annointed one" instead of "divine"? If this is not what you mean, then feel free to elaborate. I am all about clarity and understanding. It simply frustrates me when people apply their own definition to a word instead of taking the time to understand what the word means. (As I said Christ and Messiah mean exactly the same thing. Messiah is Hebrew, Christ is Greek. "Jesus" is an anglocisation of his Greek name Iesus, hence the Greek honorific. Y'shua Messiah, would be the Hebrew.)

I have already posted a defintion of the concept that is not only my own, but is shared by many individual spiritualist. Be frustrated all you want, but thats not gonna change my beleifs or my use of words to describe them.

In any case I INTRODUCED THE TERM INTO THIS DISCUSSION. You are the one that semanticly challenged my use of the word. I stand by what I said.

I challenged your use of the word Karma because you said it "contains" guilt, when clearly people contain guilt, not concepts. Karma is part of my belief system and you made a generalization about it, I have every right to comment on it and to challenge your use of it in a narrow limiting way by qualifying the concept with a different perspective. You can throw the dictionary at me all you want, but I have described my take on the concept quite clearly already.
I have respectfully qualified that you can have your own beliefs and opinions about Karma and about Christ, but please don't shove those out as absolute truth or somebody might just shove back and show how unabsolute the truth can actually be.

Reply as you will Yorick, but I plan for this to be my last post on this topic in this thread. It has gone off-topic too much already.

[ 10-16-2003, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[Firestormalpha]

Chewbacca, double-check the tone of your own post before laying it all on Yorick for being "condescending and academically snobbish". That's on the border of flaming. We don't need it on this board.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Firestormalpha: Chewbacca, double-check the tone of your own post before laying it all on Yorick for being "condescending and academically snobbish". That's on the border of flaming. We don't need it on this board.

Would you mind illustrating more specifically?

[SpiritWarrior]

Someone said earlier in this thread that religious discussions just don't work on forums. I now agree (seriously). Rather than keep bumping this discussion let us leave off like Chewbacca said eh? Just a suggestion.

[ 10-16-2003, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: SpiritWarrior ]

[Cloudbringer]

I am severely disappointed in the way this thread has deteriorated AFTER TWO moderators asked that it NOT turn into a flamewar over religion and stay true to the originator's intended inspirational feeling.

When you can't listen to two mods OR the guy who starts a thread- you show a whole lot of disrespect and little self-control. I am sorry I didn't get back soon enough, but was home, sick, all day and this is the first thing I saw when opening GD!

Enough is most certainly enough! Those of you who took this beyond the point of no return should take your further 'discussion' to the Current Events board or at least your own thread in GD on the subject. Even though Vaskez worded things a bit more strongly than I would, we've had this kind of argument disrupt or derail so many threads that I'm personally burned out on them, without a doubt.

General warning: If you can't respect one another OR the topic and the person creating a thread, then kindly go to private communications or if you can manage to be civil, your own thread, but please avoid making an otherwise innocent thread into a flame war or close to one. Bashing one another over the head with our personal beliefs hasn't won anything to this day and it never will.

Hark, if you want this thread closed, pm me or post here and I'll gladly do it. If not, and if anyone still wants to wade through the thing to try and post to your intent, we'll leave it open.

[ 10-17-2003, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Good advice well said, Cloudy. Hopefully, we ALL can follow the wisdom of your words and try to show more respect and civility to those we disagree with regardless of the topic.

In the interest of trying to salvage what should have been an interesting an enjoyable thread, I will try to start the ball rolling back in the right direction.

Originally posted by Harkoliar: As you got up this morning, I watched you, and hoped you would talk to me, even if it was just a few words, asking my opinion or thanking me for something good that happened in your life yesterday. But I noticed you were too busy, trying to find the right outfit to wear. When you ran around the house getting ready, I knew there would be a few minutes for you to stop and say hello, but you were to busy. At one point you had to wait fifteen minutes with nothing to do except sit in a chair. Then I saw you spring to your feet. I thought you wanted to talk to me but you ran to the phone and called a friend to get the latest gossip instead. I watched patiently all day long. With all our activities I guess you were too busy to say anything to me. I noticed that before lunch you looked around, maybe you felt embarrassed to talk to me,that is why you didn't bow your head. You glanced three or four tables over and you noticed some of your friends talking to me briefly before they ate, but you didn't. That's okay. There is still more time left, and I hope that you will talk to me yet. You went home and it seems as if you had lots of things to do. After a few of them were done, you turned on the TV. I don't know if you like TV or not, just about anything goes there and you spend a lot of time each day in front of it not thinking about anything, just enjoying the show. I waited patiently again as you watched the TV and ate your meal, but again you didn't talk to me. Bedtime I guess you felt too tired. After you said goodnight to your family you plopped into bed and fell asleep in no time. That's okay because you may not realize that I am always there for you.. I've got patience, more than you will ever know. I even want to teach you how to be patient with others as well. I love you so much that I wait everyday for a nod, prayer or thought, or a thankful part of your heart. It is hard to have a one-sided conversation. Well, you are getting up once again. Once again I will wait, with nothing but love for you. Hoping that today you will give me some time. Have a nice day! Your friend, GOD

I've seen this before, but it certainly serves as a good reminder of how easily Christians today can let worldly concerns come before God. We know we are "supposed" to pray, but I think many Christians feel they have to set aside a specific time to do this...then it is easy to say "I just don't have time right now". We do this often enough, and the next thing we know, the day is gone and it's time for bed.

This example shows how much time we do have to go to God in prayer, but we spend it doing other things. We don't have to set aside a 30-minute block of time (although it's great if you can do that). We can go to God while we are sitting in traffic on the way to or from work, when we sit down for a meal, or while we are relaxing on the couch or recliner after a tough day at work. I know that it is difficult for me to find a specific time at night to pray. I'm usually too busy trying to help get our 3 boys fed, bathed, and in bed. However, I often do take time to say a short prayer after reading a story to get the two older boys to sleep. As I sit on the bed and look at their innocent faces so peaceful in sleep, I find it very easy to go to God and give Him thanks for the many blessings He as bestowed upon. I also ask Him to forgive me of the sins I have committed since we talked last, and then a pray for those with special needs and for others that I feel a burden for.

Many times, I will say a quick prayer to God on my drive to or from work. I don't have to face difficult traffic, but I have a drive of about 20 minutes one way. It gives me a lot of time to reflect on several things, and I often use that time to take special concerns to God in prayer.

Finally, I will often say a quick, spur-of-the-moment prayer at work if I read a post on IW or another forum requesting a prayer. I also sometimes type the prayer out in the post itself.

Still - with all that - I see where I put other things (such as this post itself - which is being made while watching Game 7 of the ALCS) ahead of making time to talk with my Heavenly Father and Creator. And this brings me to the second - and far more important - lesson of the message above. That is the lesson of God's Infinite Love for each and every one of us.

Even though we spend time on the internet or watching a ball game instead of praying to Him, He still loves us and patiently waits for us to decide we do have time for Him. Even when we stand in line for an hour to see the latest movie, play, or opera rather than make time for Him, he simply watches and waits for the time when we will come to Him. I know how easily parents can get frustrated with their children. There are times when I feel like pinching my boys heads off. But no matter how angry or frustrated I get at them, no matter how many times they disobey me or are disrespectful towards (a rare occurrence, but it does happen), no matter how many times they see just how far they can push the limits of acceptable behavior....I still love them with every fiber of my being. Yet as deep and thorough as my love is for my children, it pales in comparison to the Love our Holy Father has for each and every one of us.

Whether you study the Bible every night, just go to church on Sunday, only give God lip-service, or even reject the entire notion of His existence, God still loves you wholly and unconditionally. He does not require us to return this Love to Him, or even to acknowledge that it exists. His is the love every parent feels for thier child, but taken to an Infinite and Holy Level that defies explanation. No matter who you are, how you act, or how you feel about God....He will always love you and will always be there if you ever decide you would like to talk to Him.

[Yorick]

Well I for one am relieved I am free from Karma, and the consequences of sin and free from being judged under the law of Moses. I fully embrace the Grace that Yeshua the annointed ONE (a singular entity) offers me and have only felt guilt slip away.

Whenever I do feel guilt, it is a flaw in my mindset and a failure to fully appreciate Yeshua's forgiveness. A situation where I intellectually understand it, but it doesn't sink into my spirit. I am glad I have this one life, and am using it to explore in every way I can, what God has placed in my life.

I am also glad I am part of a loving supportive community in this huge behemoth that is New York. The more I give to the church - the people - the more I receive.

My time in this community, in this church, has only resulted in growth as a human, growth in my relationship with God, realisation of and freedom from my own addictions, and increased joy.

Here is a song a friend of mine wrote - from within our church - that I recorded by myself just for the heck of it one day. Another friend of mine from the church did the video in a couple of days. The song and video cost nothing but our time. A community creating art that expresses our joy.

http://www.hughwilson.org/images/forgweb2.mov

Bye for now.

Yorick

[Harkoliar]

posted by cerek: ------------- Even though we spend time on the internet or watching a ball game instead of praying to Him, He still loves us and patiently waits for us to decide we do have time for Him. Even when we stand in line for an hour to see the latest movie, play, or opera rather than make time for Him, he simply watches and waits for the time when we will come to Him. I know how easily parents can get frustrated with their children. There are times when I feel like pinching my boys heads off. But no matter how angry or frustrated I get at them, no matter how many times they disobey me or are disrespectful towards (a rare occurrence, but it does happen), no matter how many times they see just how far they can push the limits of acceptable behavior....I still love them with every fiber of my being. Yet as deep and thorough as my love is for my children, it pales in comparison to the Love our Holy Father has for each and every one of us. Whether you study the Bible every night, just go to church on Sunday, only give God lip-service, or even reject the entire notion of His existence, God still loves you wholly and unconditionally. He does not require us to return this Love to Him, or even to acknowledge that it exists. His is the love every parent feels for thier child, but taken to an Infinite and Holy Level that defies explanation. No matter who you are, how you act, or how you feel about God....He will always love you and will always be there if you ever decide you would like to talk to Him.

that is very nice cerek! I whole heartedly agree with you here. God does not demand us anything, he just waits for us to volunter that attention to him. (that is what i believe in )

a small amount of our busy time to God would do wonders.. and I do not mean only when you are having a crisis or a negative depression or just downright complaining. i believe that we should help ourselves first and ask God only when everything else fails. and im proud to say that Im doing that.

I hate people who pray, hope and wait some divine miracle will make thier lives better, (unless you win a lottery or something.. thats called luck). If you are thinking about priest or other religious icons who fit in the "pray, hope and wait", then your wrong, they sacrificed alot of things to become who they are, and help everyone as much as they can. they accepted the burden of being guides to people (if only you wish to be guided).

yorick you believe that your version of God is the goodness of people around you.. that may be true because thru the priest actions you see God's work at hand. [img]smile.gif[/img]

and of course its hard to stay on topic witht his kind of response

[Harkoliar]

posted by cloudy ------------ Hark, if you want this thread closed, pm me or post here and I'll gladly do it. If not, and if anyone still wants to wade through the thing to try and post to your intent, we'll leave it open.

no worries cloudy .. i think there are still other people who wish to say something (call it intuition). Im sure you know what to do if it gets out of control. [img]smile.gif[/img] .

and this is a lesson to learn especially to other people (newbies) who havent experienced this kind of thing. to avoid it letting it happen again.