looking for a small party build

[StarVid]

I've always played with six character/class parties, but I'm looking to create a small party (4 classes max, though dual classes at relatively low levels only count as one class), and I'm looking for tips on builds for those. I have some ideas and want some critiques as well as hear some of your own ideas. I plan this party straight through without exporting and restarting the game.

1st idea:
Paladin (longswords, flails, x-bow? and later axes (+2 thrower))
Human thief dualed to mage when thief skills are pretty much maxed.
Dwarven Cleric
Elven Druid

I think this party might not have enough frontline support, but I find a lot of the druid spells really useful and wouldn't want to play without one. Furthermore, I think I might be pretty screwed while my mage is trying to catch up to my thief levels with regards to traps and locks.

Paladin
Elven Fighter/Thief
Dwarven Cleric
Elven Druid

Here I cheated and have 5 classes, though making my Thief and effective frontliner. Furthemore, the extra class won't screw up the leveling of my other 3 pcs (because all xp is divided equally ad then split for the multis of course), and I'll be sacrificing faster leveling as a thief (though it doesn't matter) in exchange for a solid fighter (which is a big deal) Also, I have no mage. This could be very bad, no?

This is pretty much all I have for ideas. I consider the druid and the cleric to be very different classes due to their spell sets, and I'd like to have one of each in the party if possible, single-classed so they're as maxed as they can be. I think that spellcasters are much more effective if they are singleclassed because the faster they acquire spells, the better they can be.

What do all of you think? Post you builds here, or make suggestions for changes to what I posted.

[StarVid]

Furthermore, I did a little bit of math to see how significantly a smaller party would effect leveling.

At about the 120,000 combined XP mark (HOW tables) you can have any six of these:

L5 Paladin, Ranger or Fighter
L6 Rogue
L5 Cleric
L6 Druid
L5 Wizard
L4/5 Fighter/Thief
L4/4 Cleric/Mage
L4/4 Ranger/Cleric

Or any 4 of these:

L6 Paladin, Ranger, or Fighter
L7 Rogue
L6 Cleric
L7 Druid
L6 Wizard
L5/6 Fighter/Thief
L5/5 Cleric/Mage
L5/5 Ranger/Cleric

At 1,000,000 combined XP you can have 6 of:
L7 Ranger or Paladin
L8 Fighter
L10 Rogue
L8 Cleric
L10 Druid
L9 Mage
L7/8 Fighter/Thief
L7/7 Cleric/Mage
L7/7 Ranger/Cleric

or any 4 of:
L8 Ranger or Paladin
L9 Fighter
L11 Rogue
L9 Cleric
L11 Druid
L10 Mage
L8/9 Fighter/Thief
L8/8 Cleric/Mage
L7/8 Ranger/Cleric

Finally, at 5,000,000 combined XP you can have 6 of:
L10 Ranger or Paladin
L11 Fighter
L14 Rogue
L11 Cleric
L13 Druid
L12 Mage
L9/11 Fighter/Thief
L9/11 Cleric/Mage
L9/9 Ranger/Cleric

or any 4 of:
L12 Ranger or Paladin
L13 Fighter
L15 Rogue
L13 Cleric
L13 Druid
L13 Mage
L10/12 Fighter/Thief
L10/11 Cleric/Mage
L10/10 Ranger/Cleric

It seems to me that a smaller party size only increases the level of a party member by 1-2 levels throughout the game. I'd predict that if you shrank the party size to 3, it would probably only give you an extra 2-3 levels. Is this really very significant considering what you lose from having extra people around (like more total attacks/actions per round).

[Leafy]

STARVID WROTE:
>1st idea:
>Paladin (longswords, flails, x-bow? and later axes (+2 thrower))
>Human thief dualed to mage when thief skills are pretty much maxed.
>Dwarven Cleric
>Elven Druid

This idea looks pretty solid actually. The paladin makes for a good front man. The Cleric can put on heavy armor and rush in to divert a few monsters or stand right behind the paladin as a combat medic. The druid also makes good with the heals and maybe some entangles or alicorns. When your thief becomes a Mage, you still have options. First: always let the paladin lead! They have good saves verses the traps. Second: if you KNOW there are traps about and you need to avoid them, the cleric can cast "detect traps." Though this spell will not disarm them, and it can be annoy seeing as how the spell effect causes the character to stop and "detect" every round or so. Be careful not to cast any other spells unless they're QUICK, or they may be broken. That should at least get you through Dragon's Eye.
PS: if you REALLY want the druid to be ELVIN, why not take advantage of the Dex bonus and give him Missle Weapons AND Daggers(of throwing!)

[StarVid]

The thing is that this party would only be 1 level higher than a six person party. Is that such a big deal? Then again, experience points don't get linear until after levels 9-10 so maybe it'll pay off in the long run.

[NihilisticCrusader]

I don't see the point of having a cleric AND a druid in the party. You just need one. The cleric casts protection spells before fights when necessary, and heals during the battle. The cleric isn't a bad fighter. I used my Fighter/Clerics as one of my main fighters and he was fine.

The druid also has some helpful offensive spells but doesn't do well physically. I prefer the cleric, but in HoW the druid can rack up levels like crazy, getting more healing spells. Having two priests in your party is kind of redundant. You only need one, and the extra space can be used as a Fighter or a conjurer.

Keep in mind that the thief doesn't see much action in Icewind Dale. Unless you really like backstabbing, I would multi-class him with a fighter, a mage, or both to give him some fighting power.

My choice would be

Fighter (Rangers and paladins have some good abilities, but Fighter can go to 5 specialization (instead of 2), and levels up faster
Cleric
Fighter/Thief (Bows and crossbows)
Conjurer

[StarVid]

For me, the cleric and druid have almost completely different spell sets. The druid has a lot of interesting spells that the cleric can't have. Spiked growth/stones, insect plague, conjure elementals, and creeping doom to name a few.

The only problem I'm having is deciding what to leave behind. I've never played a party that didn't have a little of everything in it. This is basically impossible to do with a smaller party. I have two choices, put some multiclasses in there to cover my bases, and essentially mute the leveling benefits of a larger party, or go without a lot.

I don't think having a smaller party, and only have 1-2 extra levels is worth it. But if you do a small 3 PC single classed party, you could generally be looking at an extra 4-6 levels, which is pretty nice. With only 3 single-classed PCs though, I'd be leaving behind a lot.

[Leafy]

you keep revisiting this "only one or two level advantage" thing. Keep in mind that as you gain levels, it takes considerably more EXP to reach the next. Smaller parties reach those levels SOONER. That's the key here, since levels get increasingly more difficult. So with a smaller party, you'll stay ahead of the difficulty curve.
I remember the first time i played solo with the Cleric/Ranger; making cold wights explode in Dragon's eye from the safty of the sanctuary spell.
Also keep in mind, you'll have a better chance of reaching max levels with smaller groups.
Again, i still say the First party idea, with the Paladin, Thief/mage, Cleric and Druid are pretty solid ideas. Your goal is to level quickly; though one fighter/cleric is vastly superior to a fighter and a cleric togehter. Reason? Call upon holy might increases mele ability.

[StarVid]

That is true. Though, I don't think the 1-2 level advantage is that big of a deal (especially because it's usually only 1 level until the higher levels). However, this is with a 4 person party. If I were to reduce to 2-3 PCs it would be a huge difference. I'm thinking like Ranger/Cleric, Thief/Illusionist, and some other single classed frontliner (dwarven fighter maybe?)

I think for now, I'll just finish with my party of six, and then move one the bigger (well, smaller) and better things.

[Ar-Cunin]

Alternatively you can (if you don'y already) play at insane difficulty - double xp and monsters do double damage

Then you can easily have 6 party-members

[StarVid]

That's a good idea, and it similar to something I was already thinking. I was going to take my current party, export them at the end of the game, and then replay in HoF mode. Then they'll definitely cap out.