Religion

[Darkman]

Posted by Yorrick Fair enough. That 'book' states that the earth is round btw

Yorrick... I thought the bible described the earth as flat, not round?

"four corners of the earth."
"the ends of the earth"
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises"
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved."
"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea"
"Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their glory."
"[the king] saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth...reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth's farthest bounds."

That sounds pretty flat to me

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Madriver: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Rokenn: Your argument about carbon dating basically boils down to that if I can't prove it myself then it is suspect, or a matter of faith.

Precisely. You'll find you excercise faith in many aspects of your life. Faith in God is just one aspect for me.[/QUOTE]If I tell you the moon is actually a big ball of cheese and you believe me then that is faith.

If I tell you the moon is a big ball of cheese and show you reports of scientists who have landed on and eaten the cheese (independent corroboration), but you don't go to the moon yourself, that really isn't faith, it is more like trust. You are trusting the scientists to present their cases truthfully.[/QUOTE]The first example you give is BLIND faith. Or gulibility.

Trust and Faith are very similar Madriver. You trust the scientists and have faith that they are telling the truth.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Darkman: quote: Posted by Yorrick Fair enough. That 'book' states that the earth is round btw

Yorrick... I thought the bible described the earth as flat, not round?

"four corners of the earth."
"the ends of the earth"
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises"
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved."
"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea"
"Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their glory."
"[the king] saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth...reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth's farthest bounds."

That sounds pretty flat to me [/QUOTE]Job mentions the earth as 'suspended over nothing'. Space is nothing. Absence of anything.

"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth..." (Isaiah 40:22, NIV). (By the way, the Hebrew language at that time did not have a word for "sphere," only for "circle.") "He spreads out the northern [skies] over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing" (Job 26:7, NIV).

[Hiram Sedai]

I confess to having difficulties with the NIV translation. I think it came about in the 60's as a way to get away from the KJV translation. It was their attempt to bring in more fans. The common man was now able to read it without the red lettering (that my mother still swears by) and the stilted language.

When you compare the greek translation of the Bible with the NIV version, there are huge differences. Just another iron to throw into the fire.

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Yorick: I simply don't find enough scientific evidence to swallow an evolution theory that is always changing with new 'evidence'. If the evidence was there I'd believe it, yet still hold my theology to be true.[/QB]

Just a point of order here. But that is the whole point of the sceintific method. As new evidence is found the theory is refined and changed over time.

[Rokenn]

Yorrik,
We are just going around in circles here. You have your belief and I have mine. We will only know which is right once we die, so lets call it a draw till then, ok? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Hiram Sedai: I confess to having difficulties with the NIV translation. I think it came about in the 60's as a way to get away from the KJV translation. It was their attempt to bring in more fans. The common man was now able to read it without the red lettering (that my mother still swears by) and the stilted language. When you compare the greek translation of the Bible with the NIV version, there are huge differences. Just another iron to throw into the fire.

Well the NIV I have has the 'red lettering' (Jesus words) and my father knows koine greek (like every Anglican minister in Sydney) and reckons the NIV most accurate. The NIV is regarded as the most accurate by a very large number of those who can understand koine greek.

[Darkman]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Darkman: quote: Posted by Yorrick Fair enough. That 'book' states that the earth is round btw

Yorrick... I thought the bible described the earth as flat, not round?

"four corners of the earth."
"the ends of the earth"
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises"
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved."
"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea"
"Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their glory."
"[the king] saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth...reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth's farthest bounds."

That sounds pretty flat to me [/QUOTE]Job mentions the earth as 'suspended over nothing'. Space is nothing. Absence of anything.

"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth..." (Isaiah 40:22, NIV). (By the way, the Hebrew language at that time did not have a word for "sphere," only for "circle.") "He spreads out the northern [skies] over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing" (Job 26:7, NIV).

[/QUOTE]Hehe, that doesn't surprise me at all. It seems nothing in the bible is without contradictions. I guess that's what you get from an arbitrarily compiled book of Jewish-Christian writings spanning hundreds of years. Oh, but of course it was all inspired by god, just like all the other religions claim their religious books are. Funny how that works.

[Mordenheim]

Faith and spirituality in general is such a personal thing that arguments like these are so childish. It is one thing to have a question and want wide views. Wish to speak about history or try to give a fair and honest outlook to either/or argument. This is just a argument where people on each side want to try to prove (never happen, either way) and strike with venom at the other side.

Like much in life, both sides (science + religion (why is it always the christian religion in this argument?)) have strong and weak points. A few aspects are always left out when it comes to the science part. One, it is just a theory. Two, you can find plenty of other scientists who disagree with much or evolution in the way it is presented. Anyone who has gave a honest look at evolution (the concept in its whole) can see the huge problems with it. Same goes with religion. Can anyone look me in the eye and not laugh and say science does not have a agenda? How about religion? I could bore you all with the fraud, distortion, errors about evolution if you would like?

Likewise religion has plenty of gaps, confusion, "nonsense", and plenty of fraud to go around through the history.

Both take a degree of faith. Science and the science (religion) of evolution are totally two different set of rules.

I am spiritual but not religious in anyway. I think science has done a great many things. However both can be very dangerous weapons to push a agenda. Science is all "facts" based on undisputable evidence? Yeah that worked on me when I was in middle school. Debate the issue and not get all personal people. Try it

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Darkman: Hehe, that doesn't surprise me at all. It seems nothing in the bible is without contradictions. I guess that's what you get from an arbitrarily compiled book of Jewish-Christian writings spanning hundreds of years. Oh, but of course it was all inspired by god, just like all the other religions claim their religious books are. Funny how that works.

And would you mind telling me which religions have a collection of works bound in one tome, written by humans over a couple of thousand years and inspired by God?

I'm sure that since you said "All" religions do, you'll be able to tell me what the religions are called and what the 'inspired books' are right?

Oh, before you get started, just remember that unlike the Bible, the Qu'ran is a single book, believed by Muslims to have been written in heaven and transcribed - not inspirationally written - by Muhammad.

But I'm sure you'll be able to tell me all the rest. [img]smile.gif[/img]