12-04-2002, 09:41 AM | #121 | |
Mephistopheles
Join Date: August 30, 2001
Location: deep within the sylvan splendor....
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So.........we're all right and no one is wrong. We simply look at things in a different light and interpretation. If some attribute creation to a divine being, that's right. If some attribute the same to a cosmic kaboom and potluck, that's right also. Seems to me there's plenty of room for everyone's beliefs here.... As for evolution, I am more likely to go with Nachtrafe and the generational evolution theory. On the other hand, I am not willing to totally discount the evolution theory in general as I was not (contrary to my children's beliefs) around at 'the beginning of time' to see the start of species. And what I do not know, I do not summarily sweep out of the realm of possibility. Nor do I simply kowtow to the 'other side' and say that it is something that must be taken on faith that a deity is the only personage with enough power to do such a thing and we are simply the result of a fine-tuning process. Now, since I have agreed with the gen-evolution theory, I obviously believe in the fine-tuning idea. But whether my millions-times-removed ancestor crawled out of the oceans way back when..............::shrugs:: Apparently that knowledge is not given for me to know. Kind of like the "eyes only" in the military. And that's ok with me. I have enough to know and worry about and ponder already.
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12-04-2002, 09:47 AM | #122 | |
Ironworks Moderator
Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Upstate NY USA
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You don't have any faith in anything? Hmmm.. interesting... ok, so have you seen an atom? Have you seen one split? You don't have faith in it's existence then, I imagine... so can someone drop an atom bomb on your house? It can't hurt you, right? You don't have faith in things you can't prove for yourself. Ok, I'm being a bit over the top with that example, but one I've used before may help, Callum. Centuries ago, my ancestors and most likely your own, thought diseases were caused by evil spirits and 'vapors' in the body of the sick person. They cut people or used leeches and other methods of 'draining the evil spirits' out of the blood and body. They never heard of viruses and bacteria. Had never seen them nor believed in them. Did viruses not exist then? Of course not. If you'd told them a tiny 'bug' was causing the illness, our ancestors would have accused you of brain fever or insanity and could not comprehend or believe in what you'd said. But as time went on, we learned...the human race grew and searched for answers to questions and problems....people became able to contemplate a bacteria causing a cold or flu.... we created instruments to SEE and measure such things....and we realized we had NOT known all there was to know back then. Today we admit there's so much MORE we still don't know and understand. So many new discoveries come out every day and still we have questions and still we don't know everything there is to know. New concepts and discoveries replace old theories and beliefs on a regular basis. The world isn't flat anymore and The sun surely doesn't revolve around the Earth. [img]smile.gif[/img] My point is simple. You may not be able to 'prove' God exists. But then over the centuries, we've always had things we didn't know, couldn't have proven and yet learned about later when we had the means to see or measure or understand them. I think God is right there in the list of things we can't quantify, but He is most certainly there. I have faith in that much. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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12-04-2002, 09:58 AM | #123 |
40th Level Warrior
Join Date: July 11, 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
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I just dropped back in to check on this thread, which is a recurring discussion here.
I didn't get very far until I noticed some people, educated ones even, doubting carbon dating which is based on very known science and very well understood logarithmic math. Half-life is half-life, folks. C'mon, how can you even get to the relevant points and have an intelligent discussion if you can't even admit well-known ground rules. Sheesh. The Earth is round, the Nag Hamadi texts DO exist, the moon is not made of green cheese, and carbon atoms decompose at a fixed and known rate. I didn't read enough to be trolling, and I doubt I'll even check back, so don't bother flaming me. |
12-04-2002, 09:59 AM | #124 | |
Ironworks Moderator
Join Date: March 1, 2001
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Sometimes there just is no winner, btw. Sometimes people agree to disagree or work out a compromise solution. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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12-04-2002, 10:02 AM | #125 |
Ironworks Moderator
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TL, no flaming should ensue. A lively debate, mayhap, but not flaming.
I think what's been disputed about carbon dating is it's accuracy. I've read articles by various scientists that do call it into question when discussing shorter terms but find it more accurate over very long stretches.
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12-04-2002, 10:41 AM | #126 |
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
Join Date: October 29, 2001
Location: North Carolina
Age: 61
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For Grungi and Hunter.
This information was gathered from a site called Christian Answers {http://christiananswers.net/dinosaurs/j-where2.html}. Here is the explanation they give regarding dinosaurs being mentioned in the Bible. DINOSAURS IN THE BIBLEDinosaur-like creatures are mentioned in the Bible. The Bible uses ancient names like "behemoth" (beh-HEE-moth) and "tannin." Behemoth means kingly, gigantic beasts. Tannin is a term which includes dragon-like animals and the great sea creatures such as whales, giant squids, and marine reptiles like the plesiosaurs (PLEE-see-oh-sors) that may have become extinct (died out). The Bible's best description of a dinosaur-like animal is in Job chapter 40... Job 40:15-19(NIV) -"Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feed on grass like an ox. What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God..." The book of Job is very old, written after the worldwide flood of Noah's time and probably about 2,000 years before Jesus was born. Here God describes a great king of the land animals like some of the biggest dinosaurs, the Diplodocus and Apatosaurus. It was a gigantic plant-eater with great muscles and very strong bones. The long Diplodocus had leg bones so strong that he could have held three others on his back. The behemoth were not afraid. They did not need to be; they were huge. Behemoth tails were so long and strong that God compared them to cedars--one of the largest and most spectacular trees of the ancient world. After all the behemoth had died out, many people forgot about them. Dinosaurs were extinct and the fossil skeletons that are in museums today did not begin to be put together until about 150 years ago. Today, some people have mistakenly guessed that the behemoth mentioned in the Bible might be an elephant or a hippopotamus. But those animals do not have tails like the thick, tall trunks of cedar trees!
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12-04-2002, 11:00 AM | #127 | |
Galvatron
Join Date: January 22, 2002
Location: california wine country
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12-04-2002, 11:29 AM | #128 | |
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
Join Date: October 29, 2001
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On the other hand, if the researchers are starting with the pre-determined conclusion that the Bible is correct and they ignore, discard, or manipulate any data that does not support that conclusion - then I would agree that their methodology IS flawed from the outset. Good answers to my questions, Ar-Cunin. I hope you're enjoying this as much as I am. Heirophant - Another very good and informative post.
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12-04-2002, 11:31 AM | #129 | |
Jack Burton
Join Date: October 16, 2001
Location: PA
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Quote:
also from a further point of view there was more siesmic activity between 1AD and 33AD than at any point before or since in the history of the earth (scientifically proven) (I think there is an increase in current activity but I doubt it's on teh same scale) Sorry if someone has already covered these points but I felt it worth pointing out before I move too far and forgot about them
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12-04-2002, 11:50 AM | #130 | |
Galvatron
Join Date: January 22, 2002
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Also there seems to be an undercurrent here in many posts that there is some sort of grand conspiracy by scientists world-wide to fudge the results of all their carbon dating tests to prove some pet theory. That is something I find very hard to believe.
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