Does he lie?

Felix The Assassin · 09-20-2009, 02:50 PM

Does He Lie?
by Charles Krauthammer

You lie? No. Barack Obama doesn't lie. He's too subtle for that. He ... well, you judge.

Herewith three examples within a single speech -- the now-famous Obama-Wilson "you lie" address to Congress on health care -- of Obama's relationship with truth.

(1) "I will not sign (a plan)," he solemnly pledged, "if it adds one dime to the deficit, now or in the future. Period."

Wonderful. The president seems serious, veto-ready, determined to hold the line. Until, notes Harvard economist Greg Mankiw, you get to Obama's very next sentence: "And to prove that I'm serious, there will be a provision in this plan that requires us to come forward with more spending cuts if the savings we promised don't materialize."

This apparent strengthening of the pledge brilliantly and deceptively undermines it. What Obama suggests is that his plan will require mandatory spending cuts if the current rosy projections prove false. But there's absolutely nothing automatic about such cuts. Every Congress is sovereign. Nothing enacted today will force a future Congress or a future president to make any cuts in any spending, mandatory or not.

Just look at the supposedly automatic Medicare cuts contained in the Sustainable Growth Rate formula enacted to constrain out-of-control Medicare spending. Every year since 2003, Congress has waived the cuts.
Mankiw puts the Obama bait-and-switch in plain language. "Translation: I promise to fix the problem. And if I do not fix the problem now, I will fix it later, or some future president will, after I am long gone. I promise he will. Absolutely, positively, I am committed to that future president fixing the problem. You can count on it. Would I lie to you?"

(2) And then there's the famous contretemps about health insurance for illegal immigrants. Obama said they would not be insured. Well, all four committee-passed bills in Congress allow illegal immigrants to take part in the proposed Health Insurance Exchange.

But more importantly, the problem is that laws are not self-enforcing. If they were, we'd have no illegal immigrants because, as I understand it, it's illegal to enter the United States illegally. We have laws against burglary, too. But we also provide for cops and jails on the assumption that most burglars don't voluntarily turn themselves in.

When Republicans proposed requiring proof of citizenship, the Democrats twice voted that down in committee. Indeed, after Rep. Joe Wilson's "You lie!" shout-out, the Senate Finance Committee revisited the language of its bill to prevent illegal immigrants from getting any federal benefits. Why would the Finance Committee fix a nonexistent problem?

(3) Obama said he would largely solve the insoluble cost problem of Obamacare by eliminating "hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud" from Medicare.

That's not a lie. That's not even deception. That's just an insult to our intelligence. Waste, fraud and abuse -- Meg Greenfield once called this phrase "the dread big three" -- as the all-purpose piggy bank for budget savings has been a joke since Jimmy Carter first used it in 1977.

Moreover, if half a trillion is waiting to be squeezed painlessly out of Medicare, why wait for health care reform? If, as Obama repeatedly insists, Medicare overspending is breaking the budget, why hasn't he gotten started on the painless billions in "waste and fraud" savings?

Obama doesn't lie. He merely elides, gliding from one dubious assertion to another. This has been the story throughout his whole health care crusade. Its original premise was that our current financial crisis was rooted in neglect of three things -- energy, education and health care.

That transparent attempt to exploit Emanuel's Law -- a crisis is a terrible thing to waste -- failed for health care because no one is stupid enough to believe that the 2008 financial collapse was caused by a lack of universal health care.

So on to the next gambit: selling health care reform as a cure for the deficit. When that was exploded by the Congressional Budget Office's demonstration of staggering Obamacare deficits, Obama tried a new tack: selling his plan as revenue-neutral insurance reform -- until the revenue neutrality is exposed as phony future cuts and chimerical waste and fraud.

Obama doesn't lie. He implies, he misdirects, he misleads -- so fluidly and incessantly that he risks transmuting eloquence into mere slickness.
Slickness wasn't fatal to "Slick Willie" Clinton because he possessed a winning, near irresistible charm. Obama's persona is more cool, distant, imperial. The charming scoundrel can get away with endless deception; the righteous redeemer cannot.

http://townhall.com/columnists/Charl...18/does_he_lie

SpiritWarrior · 09-20-2009, 04:58 PM

Quoted from the the front page "Townhall.com: The Source for Conservative Political News, Cartoons, Issues and Blogs".

Not exactly neutral or unbiased stuff here - even at a quick glance of the main page I noticed one of the bulletin points that read "Glenn Beck's New Book FREE From TH Magazine", (and then of course I asked myself if people who don't take advantage of this awesome offer actually pay money for Glenn Becks thoughts).

Just wanted to make that clear so nobody would assume this was from a respected or reliable source

.

Carry on.

Felix The Assassin · 09-20-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior

Quoted from the the front page "Townhall.com: The Source for Conservative Political News, Cartoons, Issues and Blogs".

Not exactly neutral or unbiased stuff here - even at a quick glance of the main page I noticed one of the bulletin points that read "Glenn Beck's New Book FREE From TH Magazine", (and then of course I asked myself if people who don't take advantage of this awesome offer actually pay money for Glenn Becks thoughts).

Just wanted to make that clear so nobody would assume this was from a respected or reliable source

.

Carry on.

Really close to what my reply was as well.

Was hoping to get a bit more bang for my buck out of you. I guess you are trainable after all...

SpiritWarrior · 09-20-2009, 05:43 PM

If by trainable you mean eyes of the ninja, then yes.

John D Harris · 09-20-2009, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior

Quoted from the the front page "Townhall.com: The Source for Conservative Political News, Cartoons, Issues and Blogs".

Not exactly neutral or unbiased stuff here - even at a quick glance of the main page I noticed one of the bulletin points that read "Glenn Beck's New Book FREE From TH Magazine", (and then of course I asked myself if people who don't take advantage of this awesome offer actually pay money for Glenn Becks thoughts).

Just wanted to make that clear so nobody would assume this was from a respected or reliable source

.

Carry on.

so what if it is biased? show me anything on eitherside that is baised, it can't be done. Refute what is said not attack the messenger. Some very good questions are asked: if there is such a savings from medicare to be found why hasn't it been done already? Anyone care to answer the question or just complain that it is asked, or prehaps dimiss the question based on who asked it? How about this question if it is the high cost of healthcare that caused the problems, why all the talk about the high cost of the war? or the Debt? Or any of the other things blamed for the recession?

SpiritWarrior · 09-20-2009, 07:48 PM

Well I mean, if you like it biased, good for you. There are some things I like that I know aren't good for me, yet I still indulge in them. Coca Cola, for example. It's all poison but it damn well tastes good.

I am simply letting everyone else know this is from a site that is carrying special offers to own a free copy of Glenn Becks book. Things like that speak volumes about their target market, which is when we know we're pretty much smack-bang in the middle of the place where people like Glenn feels comfortable (besides the mental hospital, that is). A place of paranoid megalomania, with a hint of occasional weeping for no reason whatsoever.

John D Harris · 09-20-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior

Well I mean, if you like it biased, good for you. There are some things I like that I know aren't good for me, yet I still indulge in them. Coca Cola, for example. It's all poison but it damn well tastes good.

I am simply letting everyone else know this is from a site that is carrying special offers to own a free copy of Glenn Becks book. Things like that speak volumes about their target market, which is when we know we're pretty much smack-bang in the middle of the place where people like Glenn feels comfortable (besides the mental hospital, that is). A place of paranoid megalomania, with a hint of occasional weeping for no reason whatsoever.

ROTFLMAO and you assesment of Glenn Beck isn't biased? Now I couldn't help but notice you were still unable to refute anything, you stuck with the "their bais" position. That's fine by me, where I come from that speaks volumes (as per you own assement) You'll find the difference between me and the vast majority of people you'll meet in life, I don't condem bais while having my own bais. I do question those that condem bais while having their own bias, because it's hypocritical and self serving, but to each their own. What ever floats your boat.

Chewbacca · 09-20-2009, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior

Well I mean, if you like it biased, good for you. There are some things I like that I know aren't good for me, yet I still indulge in them. Coca Cola, for example. It's all poison but it damn well tastes good.

I am simply letting everyone else know this is from a site that is carrying special offers to own a free copy of Glenn Becks book. Things like that speak volumes about their target market, which is when we know we're pretty much smack-bang in the middle of the place where people like Glenn feels comfortable (besides the mental hospital, that is). A place of paranoid megalomania, with a hint of occasional weeping for no reason whatsoever.

You can't argue with stupid or childish and you can't win versus argumentative for argument's sake. It doesn't matter whether you agree or disagree, just mentioning his name or making a quote is his win. Reason? Conscience? That crap's for lame humans, not superstars or killers.

SpiritWarrior · 09-20-2009, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John D Harris

ROTFLMAO and you assesment of Glenn Beck isn't biased? Now I couldn't help but notice you were still unable to refute anything, you stuck with the "their bais" position. That's fine by me, where I come from that speaks volumes (as per you own assement) You'll find the difference between me and the vast majority of people you'll meet in life, I don't condem bais while having my own bais. I do question those that condem bais while having their own bias, because it's hypocritical and self serving, but to each their own. What ever floats your boat.

It's "Bias". Shocked you aren't more familiar with the spelling.

Felix The Assassin · 09-21-2009, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior

If by trainable you mean eyes of the ninja, then yes.

Not exactly...

But I see you have once again ignored the message, and have attacked the author...

We are still in wait of a rebuttal to Joe Wilson's "You Lie", which, has been reviewed by the committee, and they have changed some words in the obamacrae bill.

Strange how that works...

In order to gain enlightenment in politics, one must see it and accept it from both sides. For every article written from the right perspective, there is one from the left. Therein lies the truth of politics, an issue that is clearly defined becomes shrouded in rhetoric, and only the fools become fooled by their chosen talking heads. Without investigative and counter articles, one either accepts or denies the issue, and there have been way too many issues of late to just deny. And by you not providing us with counter points, you have become trained to ignore the issue, attack the author, and challenge the creditability of the hosting web site. Thereby placing yourself in the league of the biased left.

Furthermore, the democratic party of today is the one in which evolved from the slave owning politicians of our forefathers. Ironic how ex-president Carter can call the racist trump card...But that is another story altogether.

I might publicly disagree with the website, how the article is written etc...But I do want to see more about the points that were made. Moreover, I want to see what the reaction is to the fraud, waste and abuse of the current system. Too me, that is where the initial focus should have been placed. Let "us" fix the current broken system...Then we shall move forward...

At this rate we can look forward however. For POTUS has clearly made some headway to secure his position as a one term POTUS.

09-20-2009, 02:50 PM	#1
Felix The Assassin The Dreadnoks Join Date: September 27, 2001 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 61 Posts: 3,608	Does he lie? Does He Lie? by Charles Krauthammer You lie? No. Barack Obama doesn't lie. He's too subtle for that. He ... well, you judge. Herewith three examples within a single speech -- the now-famous Obama-Wilson "you lie" address to Congress on health care -- of Obama's relationship with truth. (1) "I will not sign (a plan)," he solemnly pledged, "if it adds one dime to the deficit, now or in the future. Period." Wonderful. The president seems serious, veto-ready, determined to hold the line. Until, notes Harvard economist Greg Mankiw, you get to Obama's very next sentence: "And to prove that I'm serious, there will be a provision in this plan that requires us to come forward with more spending cuts if the savings we promised don't materialize." This apparent strengthening of the pledge brilliantly and deceptively undermines it. What Obama suggests is that his plan will require mandatory spending cuts if the current rosy projections prove false. But there's absolutely nothing automatic about such cuts. Every Congress is sovereign. Nothing enacted today will force a future Congress or a future president to make any cuts in any spending, mandatory or not. Just look at the supposedly automatic Medicare cuts contained in the Sustainable Growth Rate formula enacted to constrain out-of-control Medicare spending. Every year since 2003, Congress has waived the cuts. Mankiw puts the Obama bait-and-switch in plain language. "Translation: I promise to fix the problem. And if I do not fix the problem now, I will fix it later, or some future president will, after I am long gone. I promise he will. Absolutely, positively, I am committed to that future president fixing the problem. You can count on it. Would I lie to you?" (2) And then there's the famous contretemps about health insurance for illegal immigrants. Obama said they would not be insured. Well, all four committee-passed bills in Congress allow illegal immigrants to take part in the proposed Health Insurance Exchange. But more importantly, the problem is that laws are not self-enforcing. If they were, we'd have no illegal immigrants because, as I understand it, it's illegal to enter the United States illegally. We have laws against burglary, too. But we also provide for cops and jails on the assumption that most burglars don't voluntarily turn themselves in. When Republicans proposed requiring proof of citizenship, the Democrats twice voted that down in committee. Indeed, after Rep. Joe Wilson's "You lie!" shout-out, the Senate Finance Committee revisited the language of its bill to prevent illegal immigrants from getting any federal benefits. Why would the Finance Committee fix a nonexistent problem? (3) Obama said he would largely solve the insoluble cost problem of Obamacare by eliminating "hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud" from Medicare. That's not a lie. That's not even deception. That's just an insult to our intelligence. Waste, fraud and abuse -- Meg Greenfield once called this phrase "the dread big three" -- as the all-purpose piggy bank for budget savings has been a joke since Jimmy Carter first used it in 1977. Moreover, if half a trillion is waiting to be squeezed painlessly out of Medicare, why wait for health care reform? If, as Obama repeatedly insists, Medicare overspending is breaking the budget, why hasn't he gotten started on the painless billions in "waste and fraud" savings? Obama doesn't lie. He merely elides, gliding from one dubious assertion to another. This has been the story throughout his whole health care crusade. Its original premise was that our current financial crisis was rooted in neglect of three things -- energy, education and health care. That transparent attempt to exploit Emanuel's Law -- a crisis is a terrible thing to waste -- failed for health care because no one is stupid enough to believe that the 2008 financial collapse was caused by a lack of universal health care. So on to the next gambit: selling health care reform as a cure for the deficit. When that was exploded by the Congressional Budget Office's demonstration of staggering Obamacare deficits, Obama tried a new tack: selling his plan as revenue-neutral insurance reform -- until the revenue neutrality is exposed as phony future cuts and chimerical waste and fraud. Obama doesn't lie. He implies, he misdirects, he misleads -- so fluidly and incessantly that he risks transmuting eloquence into mere slickness. Slickness wasn't fatal to "Slick Willie" Clinton because he possessed a winning, near irresistible charm. Obama's persona is more cool, distant, imperial. The charming scoundrel can get away with endless deception; the righteous redeemer cannot. http://townhall.com/columnists/Charl...18/does_he_lie __________________ The Lizzie Palmer Tribute Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. John F. Kennedy 35th President of The United States The Last Shot Honor The Fallen Jesus died for our sins, and American Soldiers died for our freedom. If you don't stand behind our Soldiers, please feel free to stand in front of them.

09-20-2009, 04:58 PM	#2
SpiritWarrior Jack Burton Join Date: May 31, 2002 Location: Ireland Posts: 5,854	Re: Does he lie? Quoted from the the front page "Townhall.com: The Source for Conservative Political News, Cartoons, Issues and Blogs". Not exactly neutral or unbiased stuff here - even at a quick glance of the main page I noticed one of the bulletin points that read "Glenn Beck's New Book FREE From TH Magazine", (and then of course I asked myself if people who don't take advantage of this awesome offer actually pay money for Glenn Becks thoughts). Just wanted to make that clear so nobody would assume this was from a respected or reliable source . Carry on. __________________ Still I feel like a child when I look at the moon, maybe I grew up a little too soon...

09-20-2009, 05:43 PM	#4
SpiritWarrior Jack Burton Join Date: May 31, 2002 Location: Ireland Posts: 5,854	Re: Does he lie? If by trainable you mean eyes of the ninja, then yes. __________________ Still I feel like a child when I look at the moon, maybe I grew up a little too soon...

09-20-2009, 07:48 PM	#6
SpiritWarrior Jack Burton Join Date: May 31, 2002 Location: Ireland Posts: 5,854	Re: Does he lie? Well I mean, if you like it biased, good for you. There are some things I like that I know aren't good for me, yet I still indulge in them. Coca Cola, for example. It's all poison but it damn well tastes good. I am simply letting everyone else know this is from a site that is carrying special offers to own a free copy of Glenn Becks book. Things like that speak volumes about their target market, which is when we know we're pretty much smack-bang in the middle of the place where people like Glenn feels comfortable (besides the mental hospital, that is). A place of paranoid megalomania, with a hint of occasional weeping for no reason whatsoever. __________________ Still I feel like a child when I look at the moon, maybe I grew up a little too soon...

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