Opinions on baptisms

[homer]

I have had an ongoing debate with my sister for a few years now and would like some other opinions on the subject. I will try to keep it simple, to start anyhow:

I have two children, ages 4 and 2; my sister has two children as well, ages 11 and 6. Her and I both were raise in a conservative Christian house hold. That is to say we were baptized as christens and went to catholic schools. We did not go to church on a regular basis, only when we went with school. As an adult I have become an agnostic, she has chosen to continue going to church and includes her children in this. The difference of opinion is about baptisms. I have decided to not baptize my children or introduce them to any sort of religion until they are able to comprehend what it is. What I mean is, I believe they should make their own choice on whether or not they want to follow a religion. My sister’s problem is that she believes my children are living with original sin. Therefore if they were to die they would not be delivered into a good after life. While I respect her belief, I do not believe this myself.

I respect other people’s opinions and beliefs so please feel free to respond whether you agree with me or not.

Originally posted by homer: I have had an ongoing debate with my sister for a few years now and would like some other opinions on the subject. I will try to keep it simple, to start anyhow: I have two children, ages 4 and 2; my sister has two children as well, ages 11 and 6. Her and I both were raise in a conservative Christian house hold. That is to say we were baptized as christens and went to catholic schools. We did not go to church on a regular basis, only when we went with school. As an adult I have become an agnostic, she has chosen to continue going to church and includes her children in this. The difference of opinion is about baptisms. I have decided to not baptize my children or introduce them to any sort of religion until they are able to comprehend what it is. What I mean is, I believe they should make their own choice on whether or not they want to follow a religion. My sister’s problem is that she believes my children are living with original sin. Therefore if they were to die they would not be delivered into a good after life. While I respect her belief, I do not believe this myself. I respect other people’s opinions and beliefs so please feel free to respond whether you agree with me or not.

My personal opinion is as follows. You entered the marriage with both of you with the understanding that religion would be part of your life. Just because you have decided to change your mind, you should not force your change of heart on your wife and children. Since you are talking about christianity, I would say that the values and morals taught by the church will help and not hurt them. I think you would be doing your children a disservice to place your doubts upon them.

That is just my opinion.

[Melusine]

Originally posted by MagiK: My personal opinion is as follows. You entered the marriage with both of you with the understanding that religion would be part of your life. Just because you have decided to change your mind, you should not force your change of heart on your wife and children. Since you are talking about christianity, I would say that the values and morals taught by the church will help and not hurt them. I think you would be doing your children a disservice to place your doubts upon them. That is just my opinion.

Eh? Are you talking about his sister or his wife? Homer's *sister* is the one who wants the children (so the children of her brother) baptised, not his wife. And while I agree that teaching children something about religion, taking them to church some time, will more likely be beneficial than harmful, the topic is about baptisement specifically, which I think takes things a big step further.
So anyway, where *does* your wife stand on this issue anyway, Homer? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 01-10-2003, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: Melusine ]

[Elif Godson]

Heh, I was raised a Roman Catholic, was an altar boy and everything, I went to church semi regularly through my teens and even held the position of chaplan in the BSA up until I tried hold my Eagle Scout ceremony at the church, they asked for an astronomical amount of money per head and said that I would only get half of it back, this was the beginning. Now that I have two children and a third on the way my family has been harping on me to get them baptised, in order for me to do this I would have to become a regular parishoner, give titheing's and attend regular church functions, all of which I can neither afford or have the time to do. The church also want's to be paid for the baptism, now come on, being paid for this, BAH. I have adopted a different view of religon through the years and I still have faith, just not in the church. I would love to satiate my families paranoia about baptism but it does no good at all to state my case with them, until of course I ask them if they will pay for the services, heh and then it is forgotten for a few weeks I was baptised and did my first communion and whole ceremony and I feel it is useless to me, it didnt make or even help me to be the person I am today, what did help was my parent's being parent's, firm when necesary and loving all the time. My dad as of recently feels my children need to be baptised mostly due to fact he is facing his own mortality now due to cancer but he understands my plight. Heh religon is a funny thing, it can make you heathen or a saint depending on the circumstances, and heaven forbid you get in peoples way when they are leaving church.

So imo do what you feel is right

Originally posted by Melusine: Eh? Are you talking about his sister or his wife? Homer's *sister* is the one who wants the children (so the children of her brother) baptised, not his wife. And while I agree that teaching children something about religion, taking them to church some time, will more likely be beneficial than harmful, the topic is about baptisement specifically, which I think takes things a big step further. So anyway, where *does* your wife stand on this issue anyway, Homer? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Hmmm I may not know what he was asking then...I am soooo confused now

[ 01-10-2003, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Larry_OHF]

Jesus was recorded being baptized when he was an adult...and he didn't let the local baptizers do it...he went out of the city to John the Baptist.

Except ye become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. ~ Matt. 18: 3.

Infant baptism is not allowed in my church, because we believe that little children are alive in Christ because of the Atonement. Little children are redeemed through the Only Begotten; Satan cannot tempt them. Children are to be taught the gospel and baptized when eight years old, in my church. All children who die before the age of accountability are saved, never needing baptism.

Edited to re-word my point...for a friend's sake.

[ 01-10-2003, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by homer: I have had an ongoing debate with my sister for a few years now and would like some other opinions on the subject. I will try to keep it simple, to start anyhow: I have two children, ages 4 and 2; my sister has two children as well, ages 11 and 6. Her and I both were raise in a conservative Christian house hold. That is to say we were baptized as christens and went to catholic schools. We did not go to church on a regular basis, only when we went with school. As an adult I have become an agnostic, she has chosen to continue going to church and includes her children in this. The difference of opinion is about baptisms. I have decided to not baptize my children or introduce them to any sort of religion until they are able to comprehend what it is. What I mean is, I believe they should make their own choice on whether or not they want to follow a religion. My sister’s problem is that she believes my children are living with original sin. Therefore if they were to die they would not be delivered into a good after life. While I respect her belief, I do not believe this myself. I respect other people’s opinions and beliefs so please feel free to respond whether you agree with me or not.

Either way you impose your beliefs on your children. Just say your sister is right, and you are wrong. By deciding that baptism is irrelevent for your children, you doom them. If you're wrong of course. Thus you'd be making a decision not just for yourself, but also for your kids.

Now, if your sister is wrong, what does it matter. No-one is around to get annoyed with her for deciding their eternity for them.

My personal opinion is it doesn't matter. That God looks at the heart of individuals whether they've been baptised as infants or not.

There is dispute between christian denominations as to whether infant baptism is meaningful or not. The churches that have infant baptism (Anglican, Catholic for example) have CONFIRMATION, where at deciding age, the person is able to confirm the promises and decision made on their behalf.

I was baptised as a child. I could wait to get confirmed. I have many other friends who were baptised as adults.

The significance is not so much in the water - which is representative, but with the Holy Spirit.

Anyhow all the best with whatever you decide. Tricky stuff all that. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 01-10-2003, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Elif Godson: Heh, I was raised a Roman Catholic, was an altar boy and everything, I went to church semi regularly through my teens and even held the position of chaplan in the BSA up until I tried hold my Eagle Scout ceremony at the church, they asked for an astronomical amount of money per head and said that I would only get half of it back, this was the beginning. Now that I have two children and a third on the way my family has been harping on me to get them baptised, in order for me to do this I would have to become a regular parishoner, give titheing's and attend regular church functions, all of which I can neither afford or have the time to do. The church also want's to be paid for the baptism, now come on, being paid for this, BAH. I have adopted a different view of religon through the years and I still have faith, just not in the church. I would love to satiate my families paranoia about baptism but it does no good at all to state my case with them, until of course I ask them if they will pay for the services, heh and then it is forgotten for a few weeks I was baptised and did my first communion and whole ceremony and I feel it is useless to me, it didnt make or even help me to be the person I am today, what did help was my parent's being parent's, firm when necesary and loving all the time. My dad as of recently feels my children need to be baptised mostly due to fact he is facing his own mortality now due to cancer but he understands my plight. Heh religon is a funny thing, it can make you heathen or a saint depending on the circumstances, and heaven forbid you get in peoples way when they are leaving church. So imo do what you feel is right

Or you could find another church that doesn't charge for baptisms...

[realbinky]

I like Larry's church. Original Sin is such a crock. What about a baby that is born and dies in hours? Never being baptised, it goes straight to Hell? BS. This is just one issue I have with the church. I am spiritual, but not religious. My parents forced religion on me, and I hated it, and it drove me away more then toward the church. Now my dad keeps harping on the kids and church, and my wife is a little concerned too, but not Roman Catholic like I was. We talk about God, and teach right from wrong, choosing religion (or not) will be up to them, with support from us, when they are old enough.

[Elif Godson]

see, there in lie's the problem. My immediate family are Roman Catholic so in there eye's all other church's are inferior even though they tell me my children must have God in there live's. A double edged blade it is. We( my wife and children) attend a Christian church, which is so much better then the stuffy enviroment of the Catholic church and they believe as I do now, that it is the person's choice on when they accept God and there Baptism. I beleive that children are the innocent's in all this and that they are not born evil and need to be purified.