Might and Magic GURUS: gripes with wizardry. If any

[Strider_314]

I loved the Might and Magic system of items and combat. I've played that series since M&M 3 (except the latest one).

I saw an eariler post from Jarngrimr about some of the things in Wizardry being annoying, and I thought I'd make a post to discuss it. Theres a puzzle spoiler at the end.

The below is just my opinion of course, and I may be a little AD&D slanted [img]smile.gif[/img] I've also only played the game up to Trinton.

In M&M, you had full control of each of your characters actions during the combat round when their turn came up. It could be like Ok..that guy just died, now I had better cast a spell on that guy so he doesnt advance next round etc

I know Wizardry has a continuous combat mode, but I found it difficult to perform your battle strategies on. I'm only comparing the turn based mode here.

In Wizardry, after a mob dies, the members of your party that still have turn choose a random target to hit. I found that annoying when the archers decide to go for one target, and the fighters go for another (especially when the archers wake and anger a mob that was happily sleeping ).

You have no control on what your characters do during the combat round. You can change targets, but only during the optional movement phase.

The things I do like about it is the design of the parties positional ranks and weapon reach. It makes it more realistic and strategic [img]smile.gif[/img]

With the items I say if an item is cursed, then its cursed. I'm not sure if the roxx0r-high-damage-fast-but-unable-to-stop-holding weapon model makes sense.

In Might and Magic, buying and selling items was easy. There was usually a Magic items shop, a Weapons shop and an Armor shop in each town. In Wizardry there are NPCs you can buy and sell from, but it doesnt seem to be obvious what sorts of things they buy and sell. I keep finding the things I want to sell are in red. Then I need to go and try find another NPC to trade with.

I have heard that non-wiz people have been finding the puzzles difficult.

In the Monastery, the sign on the wall and the statue holding the skull clicked with me, so that puzzle was ok.

I thought the solution for the graveyard puzzle was obscure thou. I didnt find the holy water on the way down there even though my ranger has good scouting skill and found other things from a fair way away.
I had to go back to the crossroads and walk around until my ranger found the bottle. The description in the game of holy water is that it does high damage to undead. That doesnt seem to relate to solving the puzzle when you see that figure in the tomb.

All things considered thou, I'm finding Wiz 8 to be more interesting and enjoyable than the M&M games. What do yous think?

[ice3]

I'm a MM master and must agree about that. I found a small trick that allows some customization during the fight.

When the turn begins always but the walk option (even if you don't use it). After some movment and hits you get your movment turn. Use that moment to recalibrate the targets (right-click on the the current pending action of the PC) then target again.

I have often monsters that are to far or hidden (corner, tree, rock, etc) at the start of the turn that cannot be targeted by a specific spell or weapon. I just make a fake target and when I can move I set the final target. Handy for example to properly set a fireball when all the ennemy group has moved.

[Dyntheos]

i would like to see a PAUSE button that doesn't lock up the whole game, just combat at any time, that allows you to re target enemies, or spells or change weapons etc, nothing more do i hate than seeing a mob move out of the radius of my fireball and then have to quickly select the mage and then open the spellbook to retarget before her turn comes up.

If I could pause the game would be less of a click fest in continuous mode and more strategic.

[chimera99]

This is not M&M related, but I would really have loved a couple of quick buttons, one for all defend and one for all attack. My real wish is for an I DON'T NEED ANY HELP button for helpful but uncessary NPCs in battles. Last night in the T'rang base I got stuck behind 3 large groups of Trang who were fighting 6 death stings. I could have finished the battle in 1-2 rounds. Instead it went on for 10-15 minutes while the Trang nickled and dimed the darn things. (and ran away, and came back, and moved around and...)

[KC_2]

I have played Might and Magic I-VIII and Wizardry V-VIII, and have to say, I didn't like the Might and Magic series as much after World of Xeen. I prefer the way Wizardry 8 has done the combat, its alot more like the flavor of the older games, while M&M VI-VIII seemed to try to make a quasi-action RPG hybrid. And thier turnbased system was flawed in some ways, punishing you for using it by letting monsters with spells and breath attacks decimate you unless you stuck to real time and strafed your arse off.

Sir-Tech most definately came up with the best combat system.

[Nix]

Completely agree with Strider about the turn-based combat system. I would much rather prefer a truly sequential system of acting during combat, rather than choosing moves for all characters at the start of each round.

Also, one of the things that delighted me about MM was the almost complete freedom of movement the game gave you, so much so that it was so easy to get immersed in it as a virtual world. One could climb to the top of a mountain for instance, and flying was such an exhilarating experience. You could explore practically every inch of the landscape.

On the other hand, I prefer the way Wiz 8 has implemented races, classes and the gaining of experience and skills. Most especially, I like it that the more you practice, the better you get.

[Jarngrimr]

I agree totally with Strider_314 about combat.

I found combat to be overwhelmingly cumbersome in the begining but it become less of a chore now that I'm somewhat used to it and my party can kick some butt.

Not being able to disengage combat once it has started is a pain.

Theres more I wanted to add but I'm at work so I'll have to post more later.

[catzenpewters]

I agree that one aspect of combat was preferable in M&M. If I was in a group of people fighting (god forbid) and one opponent went down, I would think the members of my party would be intelligent enough to coordinate their attack. It doesn't seem realistic that they target almost random targets, and often the least logical target. On the other hand, the realism of the battles is EXCELLENT in Wizardry 8.

Also about the monsters you find being based on your level - that doesn't seem logical. Monster's native to an area don't change. I understand they wanted to keep the game challenging, and I appreciate that, but maybe it could have been a feature you turn off or on? Now I can't find things like piercer modai's that I need a claw from.

All in all though Wiz 8 is AWESOME! I'm curious to see how M&M 9 answers to it.

[Tennessee Ernie Ford]

Alas, don't look to MM9 for any innovations. Most of the design team got canned (the company may be out of business soon--and I don't expect them to support after they die as Sir Tech has done). Even w/their full design team, they corrected very few of the serious complaints about gameplay from MM6 to MM8. Recent reports indicate they might be returning to the MM6-8 game engine instead of using the LithTech engine they originally licensed.

That aside, the continuous play option in Wiz8 is closest to MM6-8's Turn Based Option. Strange but true.

Get in the habit of pressing 'U' immediately after anything else--this gives you time to think. Gameplay's a lot faster than Wiz8's phased mode, but you can retarget at will. You can also switch modes anytime and it's possible to start each round in phased but play in continuous (it's trick, though, and might not be worth it for some players).

All those folk who speeded up monster response for phased combat--you might want to slow it back down as you re-look at whether you want to try continuous mode instead.

[Nydlari]

quote:

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Originally posted by Tennessee Ernie Ford:
Alas, don't look to MM9 for any innovations. Most of the design team got canned (the company may be out of business soon--and I don't expect them to support after they die as Sir Tech has done). Even w/their full design team, they corrected very few of the serious complaints about gameplay from MM6 to MM8. Recent reports indicate they might be returning to the MM6-8 game engine instead of using the LithTech engine they originally licensed.

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Wow, this is some good gosip. Where did you hear this? I've been trying to find information on MM9 and getting real slim pickings. Admittedly, I haven't liked M&M as much since NWC went under, but I'll be really sad to see 3DO collapse and loose it all together. I guess Morrowind is the only hope I have left to find THE great CRPG.