I can't beat Abazigal

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: I dunno, SixOfSpades. I did not find it particularly annoying that Improved Abazigal could cast Imprisonment as there are so many ways to counter it. He is after all, a Dragon Bhaalspawn. Dragons are already naturally gifted with the arts of magic, it would not be unreasonable to expect that Abby can cast some level 9 spells. I mean hey... your PC, a "mere" Human Bhaalspawn can cast level 10 spells which poor Abby cannot. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Shudder... Abby with level 10 spells... ...

I don't mind Level 9 spells in general ("Hey! He cast Time Stop! No FAIR!!!"), just Imprisonment. It's not a spell designed for you to use to kill your enemies; it's a spell designed to make life miserable for the player. Think about it--if its only effect was that the victim died instantly, with no Save or Resist, people wouldn't mind it anywhere near as much. No broken Romance, no Imprisoned Summons preventing you from Summoning any more, no Imprisoned (and Freedom'd during the battle) party members turning hostile to you because they got caught in an Area of Effect spell before you could re-recuit them back into the party.....all of these problems are problems that the enemy does not have to worry about, but you do. And, of course, there's that whole "Imprisoned PC = Death for the entire party" thing. If somebody went and wrote a MOD where if you Imprisoned, say, Yaga-Shura, all of his army died with him, then that would be fair--but somehow I don't foresee that happening anytime soon.

As for "Imprisonment's not that bad if there are so many ways around it:" You are a Barbarian, and you are meleeing Abazigal side-by-side with Keldorn and Sarevok. Spell Immunity, Spell Trap, Shield of the Archons and Berserker Rage are all obviously out of the question, and the Rod of Reversal can only be used by Mages and Clerics. This leaves you with the Ring of (Minor) Spell Turning and the Book of Infinite Spells (If you were lucky enough to get the Spell Turning page before Burning Hands).....each of which will shield you from ONE powerful blast of cheese. Who do you give them to? And who's the poor sap who's going to have to sacrifice a useful Ring slot, just because Improved Abazigal casts a game-breaking spell?

And even BioWare knew just how game-breaking it was: Name me a SINGLE other spell of which you can only find *two* scrolls in the entire game. Spook? There are 3. Shapeshift? Three. Even Wish has 3 scrolls.

Abby with 10th level spells? Well, Dragon's Breath comes to mind.... [img]tongue.gif[/img] And what about his Abazigal Shockwave? If that isn't more useful (Disrupts enemy spellcasters, even during their Time Stop, eh? Neat....) than, say, Energy Blades, then I don't know what is.

My Solution: Apart from Potion-swapping SI scrolls, all that needs to be done is to create a second version of the Imprisonment spell. The PC and party keep the existing one, but the new version cast by enemies now does--
Effect: Maze. Duration: 3000 hours.
It won't affect your odds of winning a battle in the slightest: You'll still HAVE to cast Freedom if you want to see the person anytime this week, and if the entire party is Mazed, that's automatic Game-Over; No characters to control and all that. But there's no more Imprisoned PC = Death, no more Imprisoned Romances, party members are still in the party when they come back, everything works as it logically should. (Except that I don't know about the Imprisoned Summons--can they Unsummon while Mazed?)

But until a solution like that is implemented, I simply will not accept any being other than Liches, Demi-Liches, Wizards, and Sorcerers being able to cast Imprisonment. ("Oh, Balthazar happens to have Use Any Item, and he just read it off the scroll.")

Originally posted by Dace De'Briago: Is it actually possible to get infinite experience by petrifying/depetrifying dragons?

From what I've heard, yes, successfully Petrifying a Dragon gets you the EXP for killing him....no matter how many times you do it. Sad, huh? For creatures worth that much EXP, it'd have been nice if BioWare anticipated that loophole and added a "EXP for creature X has been given" variable.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Dang, I feel bad making such a short reply to your reply, Six, but... the player does have access to Protection from Magic scrolls. Something that unmodded enemies do not have access to.

Maybe others do feel differently, but personally, I did not find it game-breaking in all the times that I fought Improved Abby. Abby only uses it as a last resort, ergo, if you do not dilly-dally when he is badly-wounded, then it is highly likely that you will never see him use his Imprisonment spell.

I would say that in roughly 80% of my battles with Improved Abby and Co, Abby did not use his Imprisonment spell.

[Bloodtitan]

there is an even rarer spellscroll than imprisonment - contagion (lvl4). you only find 1 scroll in deirex tower.

you don't have to depetrify a dragon to get the loot, just hit him and there is your drop. the spelldescription is as wrong as in desintegrate.
but i am still dreaming of this red dragon monument sneezing fire at me ... [img]graemlins/1pissed.gif[/img]

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: Dang, I feel bad making such a short reply to your reply, Six, but... the player does have access to Protection from Magic scrolls. Something that unmodded enemies do not have access to.

I complain that an enemy's use of assault rifles does not belong in a sword & sorcery game, and you suggest a "remedy" in the form of a tactical nuke? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

And are you hinting that some MODded enemies do have/use PfM scrolls?

And Bloodtitan, there should be 3 scrolls of Contagion: Lazarus Librarus stocks 2 scrolls of every spell in the game, except Wish, of which he only has 1. I wish he had 4 scrolls of Shapeshift, though, because then I would have been able to turn my entire party into Iron Golems for the Monk Rumble in Amkethran:

6 Wizards cast Simulacrum
Original 6 each fire off their Spell Trigger/Project Image cheese
Each active Wizard (or Image thereof) casts Shapeshift -> Iron Golem
Somebody's Simulacrum and all 4 of his Shapeshifted Images use their Golem Manual
Total: 30 Iron Golems, 5 Juggernaut Golems!

[Bloodtitan]

yes you are right. but as i read this i wonder if there are more imp scrolls. IIRC i found or bought 1 scroll in SoA. suldanessalar or ribalds shop MK II.

[Alson]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: And are you hinting that some MODded enemies do have/use PfM scrolls?

Spoilerfree Answer: Yes, in a way.

6 Wizards cast Simulacrum ; Original 6 each fire off their Spell Trigger/Project Image cheese

Enlighten me - what Spell Trigger/Project Image cheese? Presumably you meant Chain Contingency instead of Spell Trigger.

As for the "Imprisonment & The Future of Our Children" debate, I would like to chime in the conversation with an analogy: Imprisonment is to the computer what Project Image is to the PC. Don't get me wrong - I despise Imprisonment with all my heart, and it's not a rarity when I Ctrl-Y Demi-Liches. Just a point for thought. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by Alson: Spoilerfree Answer: Yes, in a way.

Hmm. I can't say that it's wrong of enemies to use them, since after all, they are available for purchase by any random soul off the street. But I'd much rather pretend that they never existed in the first place--I know I never use them, except for some Item Upgrades.

me - what Spell Trigger/Project Image cheese? Presumably you meant Chain Contingency instead of Spell Trigger.

I must have--my use of the Contingency/Trigger set is rather minimal. I think the only time I would even be tempted to have 4 Project Images active simultaneously is for Vulgar Abuses of Power, such as a screenshot of 35 Golems pounding the crap out of some Monks.

Imprisonment is to the computer what Project Image is to the PC.

Okay, I can see that--but it's only a matter of time before Weimer writes a killer PRATI (or even PRATI x4) script for his next overpowered battle.

[/qb]....it's not a rarity when I Ctrl-Y Demi-Liches. [/QB]

WHY??? Improved Kangaxx might cause some problems, as his Telly Field could make it impossible to hide your unprotected party members from him, but apart from that, Demi-Liches are a cinch. (I like my Warrior party's last encounter with one: Montaron was exploring, in Stealth, but as soon as he saw it he peed his pants, turned, and bolted, screaming for Korgan all the way. [img]smile.gif[/img] )

I'll only Ctrl-Y enemies that shouldn't even be there: For instance, I'm about to play my first Tactics game, and if Imp. Kangaxx has any Guardians that are NOT Undead, they go bye-bye. ("Why yes, I'm training hard to become a 20th Level Kensai, so I can take up a highly rewarding career in being locked in a room with a bunch of Liches for the rest of my life, guarding a forgotten crypt from all the hundreds of people that aren't the least bit interested.")

[Alson]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: I must have--my use of the Contingency/Trigger set is rather minimal. I think the only time I would even be tempted to have 4 Project Images active simultaneously is for Vulgar Abuses of Power, ...

As flawed as my logic can oft be, I think this one is rather self evident as it is. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Okay, I can see that--but it's only a matter of time before Weimer writes a killer PRATI (or even PRATI x4) script for his next overpowered battle.

Actually, a different modder already accomplished something very similar.

WHY??? Improved Kangaxx might cause some problems, as his Telly Field could make it impossible to hide your unprotected party members from him, but apart from that, Demi-Liches are a cinch.

Exactly. Demi-Lich fights are as boring as it gets... and since time is finite (take Hawking's word for it), I rather just fight the Lich form and Ctrl-Y its el-boringo incarnation than waste my time on it.

I'll only Ctrl-Y enemies that shouldn't even be there: For instance, I'm about to play my first Tactics game, and if Imp. Kangaxx has any Guardians that are NOT Undead, they go bye-bye. ("Why yes, I'm training hard to become a 20th Level Kensai, so I can take up a highly rewarding career in being locked in a room with a bunch of Liches for the rest of my life, guarding a forgotten crypt from all the hundreds of people that aren't the least bit interested.")

That's just as good. Personally, if something like this bothers me (which hardly happens) I just come up with a story of my own that'll fit the scenario and won't break the immersion.

[ 07-17-2003, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Alson ]

[Dundee Slaytern]

Just a minor correction to BloodTitan. Petrification( if you shatter the statue) and Disintergrate does destroy loot, except Gold and Quest Items. Something, many an ignorant player, discovered to their horror.

Thank goodness for Reload eh? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 07-18-2003, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]