Kyoto Protocol and the Bush Administration

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Donut: Who's this Rush guy - please enlighten me.

Rush Limbaugh is a radio and TV talk show host. He is extremely right wing (Republican). My biggest problem with him is that he NEVER gives the other side (democrats) any praise. To him, every single problem in the US is b/c of the Democrats and every good thing in the country (are there any ) is b/c of the Republicans!

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Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

[Sir Taliesin]

Hey Donut,

Rush Limbaugh is a conservative radio talk show host. He has one of the most popular shows on radio. His fans and followers are known as "Ditto Heads".
While I'm a little right of moderate on my views, I personally can't stand Rush.
He is a little to arrogant for my tastes. If I'm going to listen to talk radio, I tend to listen to either G. Gordon Liddy (The guy that broke into the Watergate Tower for Nixon in 1972) (and only because he's funny) or Neal Bortz
(again only because he is funny. I don't tend to take either seriously.). I personally tend to get my news from National Public Radio, even though I consider them to be liberal and local commentators where I live.

Sorry about the US bashing thing. We just seem to be the only ones that get attacked here. I try not to take it too personally. But it can get old, especially when others tend to same the same old thing all the time.

I know that a lot of you don't like Bush, but I'm not sure why. I can understand why many here in the US don't (because of the election), but Europeans haven't been exposed to him much. Most of the major news sources here in the states said the most of the leaders of Europe that met with Bush
have come away quite pleasently surprised by him. I'm especailly distrubed by those that would like to see him assasinated. What's up with that? I know you aren't one of those.

As for those from the US that say he is not their President, well like or not he is. I was never enthralled with Bill Clinton either, but I put up with him until he left office. And while I was in the Army, if he said go fight here, I'd have gone.

While I know we are one of the biggest polluters in the world, we have come a long way. We probably produce some of the cleanest burning automobiles in the world. Where we could do better is make the m go further on less fuel. I like the idea of alcohol burning cars. I really see this as the best solution. Even over Hydrogen. Here's why. Alcohol has to be produced by farmers. A shrinking segment of our society and one which this country was built on. By switching to an alcohol based fuel we give our farmers something else to grow.
Grain or potatoes could be the tobacco of the future for the farmers of the world. That not only helps the environment, but also the economy.

We will never get away from fossil fuel in this world unless we go back to the stone age. All of us use a lot of plastic. Just look at this computer we are working on right now.

Oh well, enough rambling on. You all have nice day!

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Sir Taliesin



If they take my gun can I still use my Axe?

[Gaelic]

Originally posted by Moridin: Rush Limbaugh is a radio and TV talk show host. He is extremely right wing (Republican). My biggest problem with him is that he NEVER gives the other side (democrats) any praise. To him, every single problem in the US is b/c of the Democrats and every good thing in the country (are there any ) is b/c of the Republicans!

I am listiening to him over the internet RIGHT NOW and he is at present hammering a republican senator (McCain). On Friday he was nailing Trent Lott. Yes Rush is pretty far on the conservative side, but he does better at providing actual, real NEWS instead of just spin headlines like the mainstream media.

To whoever it was thet mentioned where I live as the center of conservatism (or something to that effect) I just want to let you know that we in VA have republicans for our governor, both senators, and (as of yesterday) 8 of 11 representatives. Of the remaining 3 reps, one is an independant who votes conservative. The whole state of VA is on the right track. I certainly don't agree with everything that Rush, or Bush, or the republicans say, but they are much more in favor of holding people personally responsible for their actions and decisions than any democrat or liberal politician. THAT is the number one issue in politics today (in my mind) so I support them.



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Gaelic

Gasohol was tried in the past and didn't make it to far. Unfortunately you are right about the agriculture aspect of this. The "little man" is getting bought out by huge corporations or in some cases the state. Tobacco growers in Maryland are almost out of bussiness through a buy out program. They must grow what the state tells them to. This grand take over has been going on for awhile. Just like mass production of everything. The more you make the cheaper the item. Huge food companys in the 70s started doing this. Ultra modern equipment, fertilizers and many full time workers with financial back up also in bed with the govt price indexs ..well you get the idea.
I still say hybrids must be moved on. The research is there and the people need it now! I truly beleive that my wifes dad died of inhalation of smog. Her mother got cancer almost at the same time. They could cut it out of her thow. He had it in a very vital area. They lived in Santiago, Chile. One day there my throat is ready to fall off. Bus's ..and more bus's.. It's the same in many other city's around the world also. Just coverting them to propane would help greatly. Is it no wonder that the life expectancys in these countrys are lower.

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[This message has been edited by Conan (edited 06-20-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Conan (edited 06-20-2001).]

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Gaelic: I am listiening to him over the internet RIGHT NOW and he is at present hammering a republican senator (McCain). On Friday he was nailing Trent Lott. Yes Rush is pretty far on the conservative side, but he does better at providing actual, real NEWS instead of just spin headlines like the mainstream media.

I will agree with you that Rush does relay the real News, but I don't think he gives the Democrats a fair shake. I don't think ripping on McCain is too far off for Rush, as McCain is not a very 'conservative' republican . As for Trent Lott, why is Rush ranting on him? I think Rush would marry Lott if Republicans allowed that

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Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by John D Harris: igor782 I was sure hoping that some internet wizard would come up with the images that you did. I've known for years that the WORLD LARGEST producer of CO was those most hallowed rainforests (jungles), lord don't touch them or we are all going to die. Rotting vegatation releases more CO than the fossil fuel burning evil humans. Jungles are part of nature. Nature produces more greenhouse gases than evil man HMMMMMMMMM. (Oh but oil companies are bad, maybe if "big oil" had some furry little rodents running around them. Everybody would be piss'n and moun'n about the rainforrest interests and their infuence on the world's govt.) As far as the US not doing it's part for good ole mother earth. I'd sure, as Hell is hot, would much rather take a drink of water out of the Mississippi river then the Ganges, Yanze, Rhine or the Thames. (I'd even take a drink from the Hudson river before any of the others I listed) No Kyoto! Edited out most of the car stuff

John D - did you read my post concerning these piccies? Igor got it wrong! Also, it is the Amazon rainforests that ABSORB 1/3 to 1/2 of the co2 we produce (well, that the USA mainly produces). If it were not for those rainforests you would probably be choking right now!
Sorry to correct you, but facts is facts!

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[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by tracey: in response to flotsdale don't know how to move the blasted faces - they don't respond to my tender touch!

Errrrmmmm - you don't move 'em tracey. Look at a smilie in the 'smilie legend'. Alongside the smilie are a pair of :: In between the colons, is a lower case word, like blush. Write them on the board like this : blush : but without the spaces, and you get



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[Gaelic]

Originally posted by Moridin: I will agree with you that Rush does relay the real News, but I don't think he gives the Democrats a fair shake. I don't think ripping on McCain is too far off for Rush, as McCain is not a very 'conservative' republican . As for Trent Lott, why is Rush ranting on him? I think Rush would marry Lott if Republicans allowed that

Lott has always been a pretty weak leader, as majority/minority leaders go. That is what he was hammering him for. McCain used to act more conservative. I was initially a McCain supporter during the predidential primaries. But, he saw the handwriting on the wall with Jeffords and has swung more liberal in order to capture more media coverage, etc. They are all nothing but power-mongers. All we can do is vote for the one we think will vote the way we want. Unfortunately, McCain is all but a democrat now. There was a straw poll reported on Hardball (I think) last night that showed hypothetical election returns for the 2004 presidential race. The first was Bush vs any democrat. It came out 44-44% with roughly 6% undecided. When McCain was added to the mix as an independant, Bush stayed at 44%, but McCain and the Democrats split the rest roughly evenly with some small number undecided. Thus, I have to side with Rush on this one.



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Gaelic

[tracey]

fjotsdale you are so clever and wee

[Jimbo]

Hey Charean, do you have another link that explains the treaty in common terms?
Plus if you click on the link inside the treaty at the top,

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1997/glo...disagreements/

you see the break down of what each country wants. BTW, China and India will exceede the US in pollution in 30 years, that comes from the same source.

Not just the US is balking at the treaty but other nations are too.

Australia,
http://www.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/09/13...eenhouse.reut/
http://www.enn.com/enn-subsciber-new...yoto_31414.asp
and see the above text from the CNN article.

How is reducing the Industrialized and putting limits and enforcements on only the industrialized nations okay, and allowing the Lesser developed to pollute up to 30 times more than what the US is currently doing? You get rid of one, but let 2 more develope, and those 2 more are worse than the one you just lowered? That is where I have a problem with it. Also the lesser developes are saying they won't sign any treaty unless it is worse for the industrialized than for them (more or less we can do it but you can't).

That is my problem with it.

I for one want the environment cleaned up. And I want everyone to do it, not just one side.


Back on the alcohol powered cars, Conan mentioned using gasohol, which is a mix of gas and alcohol. I was not talking about that. I am saying alcohol as the fuel, and the alcohol is seperated into hydrogen and oxygen and the hydrogen is burned like you would with a propaine or gas powered car. Burning Hydrogen is one of the most clean methods for an internal combustion engine. Alcohol is a renewable source (which Sir Tal brought up that i didn't get to go into), easy to make, transport, and deliver, and can use the current set up with modifications. Now the problem is gettin enough of them made and the fuel out there.

Here is some nice thoughts on what the treaty did get going, and that is getting people to think about how we will clean up the environment. It also brings up this point. Say you make Industrialized nations pollute less, but not the lesser developed, now if you owned a bussiness where would you set up? The country where you have to spend more to make a product or the country where you can spend less to make it? That type of laws actually backfire, causing the polluting corporations to flee to the lesser developed nations and end up polluting more than what they were doing.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/971222/22trea.htm

Also, it wasn't just Bush who killed it, the Senate killed it 95 - 0 (don't ask me what happened to the other 5). They passed a non-binding resolution that said that they won't support any resolution that did not bind non-developed along with the developed countries.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe...ronment.kyoto/

Back to that alcohol-hydrogen powered car, here is a link explaining the electric and fuel cell (which are 0% pollution [which is still not a right label]), and some about alcohol (like the top fuel drag racers use).

http://detnews.com/autosweekly/0003/22/lede/lede.htm
http://pubs.acs.org/hotartcl/est/99/nov/hanis.html

Personally, I will be glad to see the come of a clean burning and renewable energy source. The US should have never gotten into a situation where we are so dependent on foreign oil in the first place. Renewable and clean is the way to go.

Alcohol and Hydrogen is a good move if we go for it. Of course, some one will come out and say it's a move for the US to dominate the source since US, Canada, Australia, Argentia, and a few others actually have the farming industry ready to go (nature of the beast, someone allways thinks were doing it to keep the homies down...).

BTW I never listen to Rush, and I haven't listend to NPR or the Candian equivilant since I got out of the service. I prefer print as it is easier to evaluate how well a source is, and you can go back and re-read what has been said.