BG2 Spell Reference Updated - Again!

[Alson]

Originally posted by pook: Oh yes, I forgot. How do you "technically" update the SOM spell trap?

Using the Rest option of the Wish spell. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Jim]

Any feedback is welcomed.

Well, I've finally got round to reading this guide and have a little feedback for ya [img]smile.gif[/img]

Firstly I'd like to say that that's a great spell guide and it's obvious that a lot of hard time and effort has gone into its creation. I would like to comment of a few points however:

It seems that you've mentioned the saving throw bonus/penalty that some spells give, but not all of them. In order to make the guide consistent, I'd suggest mentioning all the saving throw modifiers for applicable spells. A quick browse found the following saves that need adding, but I've a feeling there's a few more:

web (-2)
confusion (-2)
slow (-4)
feeblemind (-2)
finger of death (divine and arcane) (-2)
The symbol spell fear and stuns (-4)
mental domination (-2)

There was a comment about the use any item ability, to allow a thief to use Carsomyr, Human Flesh, Ring of Gaxx, Amulet of Seradine to provide 90% MR. I know these items were only given as examples, but Carsomyr grants 50% MR, not +50% MR, so you can see the MR stack only if you equip the Carsomyr first, then the other items, but the first time you actually use Carsomyr, its 50% MR will be applied and override any other bonuses (apart from innate MR), so this combination won't actually give 90% MR.

Shops will give you about a 10% discount for being such a swell person

The above comment about Charisma is a little vague. This discount depends entirely on the actual CHA value. Discounts stop advancing after a CHA of 20, with 20 giving the maximum discount of 25%.

Example (prices in brackets reflect percentage discount):
Staff of Rynn +4, Base cost: 22275
16 CHA = 21060 (5%)
17 CHA = 19980 (10%)
18 CHA= 18900 (15%)
19 CHA= 17820 (20%)
20 CHA= 16605 (25%)

Shield Spell: Protects much better than Armor but lasts only half as long (too short to cast after resting). It does provide total immunity to Magic Missiles (though not in Baldur's Gate I or Icewind Dale). Useful at low levels. Get either this or Armor, depending on your tastes.

The shield spell in IWD does protect from Magic Missiles (and also Force Missiles).

The following are some minor corrections to the guide:

Sword Spiders have 5 attacks per round, not 4 as was referenced by the spider spawn spell (as creatures they have 4 APR base, but have permament haste).

Here are some of my opinions regarding spells:

Not really an improvement over lower level area damage spells.

Cone of Cold was referenced as above, but name another spell that deals upto 20D4+20 damage for level 5

It was suggested to take skull trap over sunfire, but sunfire is available by level 9 (so a skull trap would do 9D6 at this equivalent level) and deals 50% more damage than a fireball dealing 15D6 damage! I think sunfire is a very capable spell. There's also no danger of harming the caster like there is for a fireball or skull trap spell.

I wouldn't refer to Protection from Acid as "Worthless" since it makes one particular engagement in the game much easier and it lasts an age (upto 20 turns).

It was stated that the Divine and Arcane Protection from Fire spells were identical. This isn't the case. The arcane version lasts 1 turn per level and grants +50% fire resistance. The divine version grants +80% and lasts 3 rounds +1/level. This also makes the 2nd level priest spell "Resist Fire/Cold" useful since the fire bonuses from this spell and from "Protection from Fire" are cumulative, therefore granting the max 127% fire resistance to allow fire to heal you.

Regarding Unholy Blight:

Unholy Blight: The Evil version of Holy Smite. Practically worthless; Good enemies are pretty rare (unless you like having a Reputation of 0). Druids are spared this spell

This is a tiny nitpick, but it's not possible to have rep of less than 1.

Cure Serious Wounds: Practically the same as Cure Medium Wounds. This is supposed to be an upgrade, but heals only three pathetic Hit Points more. Go for it only if you really need the healing. Druids are better off getting an extra Call Woodland Beings in any case.

I think you've got this and cure medium wounds muddled up. Cure medium wounds heals 3 HP more than cure light wounds. Cure serious wounds cures 6 hp more than cure medium wounds.

There was also a comment about the Aerial Servant being about as touch as a mountain bear. In fact, the AS is much tougher with 128 HP compared to 70 HP.

I've also never understood the fascination with Natures Beauty. They get a +3 bonus to the save or die, and the blindness only affects a tiny 5 foot radius around the caster, so I'm not sure how you disable half the battlefield with this one. It's a good spell, but there are much better 7th level divine spells IMO.

I'm sure there were other things I was going to comment on but can't remember at the moment. I'll let you know if I think of anything else. Again, nice guide!

[DJG]

Alson, you are a saint!

I've bookmarked your site!

I had some queries about spells and your site really helped!

PS: I've lost my manual.
PPS: I'll help you with your site in any way I can Alson!

[Dundee Slaytern]

A little nitpick about Spike Traps. They do not affect everybody. The blue guardians in Watcher's Keep level 5 are immuned to them.

On this page, Liches can and will cast on you with direct-damage spells even if you are totally invisible. This applies to other enemies that can see through invisibility.

ADD] The website seems leery of having high resistances, judging from the way it described the various Protection from ~~ spells, but resistances should not be underestimated, and should be highly embraced at all times. Healing from the enemy is a wonderful power tactic, and there is no problem with spell disruption because you can just choose to cast when the enemy is not casting. Remember, if they cannot hurt you, they cannot kill you.

Pierce Shield was a bit of misinformation as well. It is not a RRoR+Weaker Lower Resistance, but a Secret Word+Lower Resistance. At level 20, both LR and PS lowers the enemy's Magic Resistance by 30%. 3 of these in a Chain Contingency is extremely scary to an enemy Mage. Take out one and throw in a RRoR if the target has Spell Trap.

Protection from Energy Another very sad spell for its level. Even less effective than its cheaper brothers that at least provide complete resistance. Don't go anywhere near this spell.

I wholely disagree with this. 75% resistance to Fire/Cold/Electricity/Acid/Magic Damage is not to be sniffed at. Combine with the Belt of Inertial Barrier and you heal from Magic Missile/Skull Trap/ADHW. Combine with other equipment, and you gain immunity and healing when possible. This spell should not be underestimated.

ADD] ADD]

Finger of Death Save-or-else suffer some minor damage anyway. Go for Polymorph Other if you like insta-kill save-or-else spells, go for Magic Missile if you like damage spells. Either way, save your precious level 7 slots for something good.

He's kidding right? I was slaying Fire Giants and Dragons in ToB with this spell. They key here is Greater Malison.

The Skeleton Warrior is 90% magic resistant and therefore very effective against spellcasters and Mind Flayers, and allows you to cast area damage spells at the creatures they are engaged with.

Your friend does know that "even if your summon does not get hurt, it will go hostile", right?

Feeblemind Mediocre save-or-else spell. Leaves one enemy standing around drooling for the rest of the battle, but Polymorph Other already did something like that and Domination does something much more useful.

Mediocre my a**. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Feeblemind is the reason why I managed to kill Abazigal with a Dispel Magic. It has a -2 save penalty, combine with Greater Malison for a -6 penalty. Throw in Doom for a -8 penalty.

Protection from Acid Worthless. Will still not protect you from round-to-round spell disruption from Melf's Acid Arrow. Pretty sad spell for level 6.

Level 5 you mean.

Spell Immunity ~~ Versatile spell, may come in handy sometimes. Just don't hold your breath.

Urm... rightttt... SI is one of the best protection spells in the game. I laugh at Kangaxx and all other Liches because of this spell.

I will continue tomorrow.

[ 11-03-2002, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

[Alson]

Originally posted by Jim: Well, I've finally got round to reading this guide and have a little feedback for ya [img]smile.gif[/img] Firstly I'd like to say that that's a great spell guide and it's obvious that a lot of hard time and effort has gone into its creation. I would like to comment of a few points however:

Thanks for the intelligent reply. [img]smile.gif[/img]

It seems that you've mentioned the saving throw bonus/penalty that some spells give, but not all of them. In order to make the guide consistent, I'd suggest mentioning all the saving throw modifiers for applicable spells. A quick browse found the following saves that need adding, but I've a feeling there's a few more: web (-2) confusion (-2) slow (-4) feeblemind (-2) finger of death (divine and arcane) (-2) The symbol spell fear and stuns (-4) mental domination (-2)

We only mentioned saves in cases where it was a Manual correction, or very important for the review of the spell.

There was a comment about the use any item ability, to allow a thief to use Carsomyr, Human Flesh, Ring of Gaxx, Amulet of Seradine to provide 90% MR. I know these items were only given as examples, but Carsomyr grants 50% MR, not +50% MR, so you can see the MR stack only if you equip the Carsomyr first, then the other items, but the first time you actually use Carsomyr, its 50% MR will be applied and override any other bonuses (apart from innate MR), so this combination won't actually give 90% MR.

Yes, you and i had this discussion already. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Will replace with Purifier.

The above comment about Charisma is a little vague. This discount depends entirely on the actual CHA value. Discounts stop advancing after a CHA of 20, with 20 giving the maximum discount of 25%. Example (prices in brackets reflect percentage discount): Staff of Rynn +4, Base cost: 22275 16 CHA = 21060 (5%) 17 CHA = 19980 (10%) 18 CHA= 18900 (15%) 19 CHA= 17820 (20%) 20 CHA= 16605 (25%)

Will reword.

The shield spell in IWD does protect from Magic Missiles (and also Force Missiles).

But since this is a BG2 Spell Reference... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

The following are some minor corrections to the guide: Sword Spiders have 5 attacks per round, not 4 as was referenced by the spider spawn spell (as creatures they have 4 APR base, but have permament haste).

Yea, we already noticed it. It'll be there next version. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Here are some of my opinions regarding spells: quote: Not really an improvement over lower level area damage spells.

Cone of Cold was referenced as above, but name another spell that deals upto 20D4+20 damage for level 5 [/QUOTE]Cone of Cold: 20D4+20 = Average 42+20 = 62.
Skull Trap: 60D6 = Average 183.
Level 3. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

It was suggested to take skull trap over sunfire, but sunfire is available by level 9 (so a skull trap would do 9D6 at this equivalent level) and deals 50% more damage than a fireball dealing 15D6 damage! I think sunfire is a very capable spell. There's also no danger of harming the caster like there is for a fireball or skull trap spell.

I didn't quite get this one.
Skull Trap is availabe earlier, and deals better damage.
A simple aiming will prevent damaging the caster.

I wouldn't refer to Protection from Acid as "Worthless" since it makes one particular engagement in the game much easier and it lasts an age (upto 20 turns).

Yes. One.
Every spell can be useful once, but we're talking about good overall spells.

It was stated that the Divine and Arcane Protection from Fire spells were identical. This isn't the case. The arcane version lasts 1 turn per level and grants +50% fire resistance. The divine version grants +80% and lasts 3 rounds +1/level. This also makes the 2nd level priest spell "Resist Fire/Cold" useful since the fire bonuses from this spell and from "Protection from Fire" are cumulative, therefore granting the max 127% fire resistance to allow fire to heal you.

Check out the description.
The Manual is wrong - Protecion from Fire (both Arcane and Divine) grants 100% resistance. Havn't checked into the duration part.

Regarding Unholy Blight: quote: Unholy Blight: The Evil version of Holy Smite. Practically worthless; Good enemies are pretty rare (unless you like having a Reputation of 0). Druids are spared this spell

This is a tiny nitpick, but it's not possible to have rep of less than 1.[/QUOTE]Thanks. Xyx hates Typos.

quote: Cure Serious Wounds: Practically the same as Cure Medium Wounds. This is supposed to be an upgrade, but heals only three pathetic Hit Points more. Go for it only if you really need the healing. Druids are better off getting an extra Call Woodland Beings in any case.

I think you've got this and cure medium wounds muddled up. Cure medium wounds heals 3 HP more than cure light wounds. Cure serious wounds cures 6 hp more than cure medium wounds.[/QUOTE]Not true.
CMW cures 14 damage.
CSW cures 17.
17 - 14 = [img]tongue.gif[/img]

There was also a comment about the Aerial Servant being about as touch as a mountain bear. In fact, the AS is much tougher with 128 HP compared to 70 HP.

Toughness is not all about HP.
We're also talking about AC, resistances, immunities, etc...

I've also never understood the fascination with Natures Beauty. They get a +3 bonus to the save or die, and the blindness only affects a tiny 5 foot radius around the caster, so I'm not sure how you disable half the battlefield with this one. It's a good spell, but there are much better 7th level divine spells IMO.

Permanent, unsavle Blindness.
The Area of Effect is not 5 foot - it is as big as Cloudkill, Fireball, etc!!!
AND, it can be cast without breaking invisibility, which is CHEAP, considering the whole idea of the spell...
The Instakill is just gravy.

I'm sure there were other things I was going to comment on but can't remember at the moment. I'll let you know if I think of anything else. Again, nice guide!

Thank you for the great reply.

[Alson]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: ]A little nitpick about Spike Traps. They do not affect everybody. The blue guardians in Watcher's Keep level 5 are immuned to them.

Yea, that was supposed to be in.
Will reword.

On this page, Liches can and will cast on you with direct-damage spells even if you are totally invisible. This applies to other enemies that can see through invisibility.

Are you 100% sure about this?
I'm quite sure they can't.
The only way to cast a spell on a shimering target is ForceSpell(), which most liches don't use.

ADD] The website seems leery of having high resistances, judging from the way it described the various Protection from ~~ spells, but resistances should not be underestimated, and should be highly embraced at all times. Healing from the enemy is a wonderful power tactic, and there is no problem with spell disruption because you can just choose to cast when the enemy is not casting. Remember, if they cannot hurt you, they cannot kill you.

That's because me and Xyx are quite heavy on the offensive playing style.
Littiz is the one that tries to balance it out. [img]smile.gif[/img]
We believe that resistances are usually irrelevent - if they can't see you (aka Mislead(TM)), they can't kill you. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Pierce Shield was a bit of misinformation as well. It is not a RRoR+Weaker Lower Resistance, but a Secret Word+Lower Resistance. At level 20, both LR and PS lowers the enemy's Magic Resistance by 30%. 3 of these in a Chain Contingency is extremely scary to an enemy Mage. Take out one and throw in a RRoR if the target has Spell Trap.

Dundee, you already know my PoV about spell protections and the like.
I learnt it from Xyx.

quote: Protection from Energy Another very sad spell for its level. Even less effective than its cheaper brothers that at least provide complete resistance. Don't go anywhere near this spell.

I wholely disagree with this. 75% resistance to Fire/Cold/Electricity/Acid/Magic Damage is not to be sniffed at. Combine with the Belt of Inertial Barrier and you heal from Magic Missile/Skull Trap/ADHW. Combine with other equipment, and you gain immunity and healing when possible. This spell should not be underestimated.[/QUOTE]Name 10 enemy mages in a non moded game that use Skull Trap or ADHW.
And MM is usually the last spell in the Mages script.
Littiz is a big fun of this spell, though - maybe we can be slightly less harsh about it.

ADD] ADD] quote: Finger of Death Save-or-else suffer some minor damage anyway. Go for Polymorph Other if you like insta-kill save-or-else spells, go for Magic Missile if you like damage spells. Either way, save your precious level 7 slots for something good.

He's kidding right? I was slaying Fire Giants and Dragons in ToB with this spell. They key here is Greater Malison.[/QUOTE]IMO, FoD is pathetic.
Nature's Beauty is sorta like an Area of Affect FoD for Druids (Die, or be Blinded and THEN die), and if you're facing Fire Giants, your cleric should have at least one HLA anyway. Deva will slaughter a Fire Giant anyday, and will do soooo much more.

quote: The Skeleton Warrior is 90% magic resistant and therefore very effective against spellcasters and Mind Flayers, and allows you to cast area damage spells at the creatures they are engaged with.

Your friend does know that "even if your summon does not get hurt, it will go hostile", right?[/QUOTE]I havn't, either. Are you sure?
I will test it, and if you're right, we'll reword.

quote: Feeblemind Mediocre save-or-else spell. Leaves one enemy standing around drooling for the rest of the battle, but Polymorph Other already did something like that and Domination does something much more useful.

Mediocre my a**. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Feeblemind is the reason why I managed to kill Abazigal with a Dispel Magic. It has a -2 save penalty, combine with Greater Malison for a -6 penalty. Throw in Doom for a -8 penalty.[/QUOTE]Malison and Doom helps any spell, so it's not an example.
And the cheesy use of it is mentioned.

quote: Protection from Acid Worthless. Will still not protect you from round-to-round spell disruption from Melf's Acid Arrow. Pretty sad spell for level 6.

Level 5 you mean. [/QUOTE]Thanks. As i said - Xyx hates Typos. [img]smile.gif[/img]

quote: Spell Immunity ~~ Versatile spell, may come in handy sometimes. Just don't hold your breath.

Urm... rightttt... SI is one of the best protection spells in the game. I laugh at Kangaxx and all other Liches because of this spell.[/QUOTE]I wholly agree - you know how much i like SI.
I talked to Xyx about it many times, but it's HIS guide, after all.
He has the final word, and he doesn't like it as much as we do.
A matter of style, i guess.

I will continue tomorrow.

Can't wait. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Thanks for the reply. I was waiting to hear from you.

[Jim]

"It does provide total immunity to Magic Missiles (though not in Baldur's Gate I or Icewind Dale)"

But since this is a BG2 Spell Reference...

I know [img]smile.gif[/img] But it was stated that this spell does not protect from MM in IWD. I was merely saying that it does

Cone of Cold: 20D4+20 = Average 42+20 = 62. Skull Trap: 60D6 = Average 183. Level 3.

How do you figure 60D6? Skull trap deals 1D6 magic damage per caster level, therefore surely the maximum is 20D6. Now that I think about it, a 20th level skull trap will beat a 20th level cone of cold, but as far as I can see, that's the only one that can for sub level 5 spells.

"It was suggested to take skull trap over sunfire, but sunfire is available by level 9 (so a skull trap would do 9D6 at this equivalent level) and deals 50% more damage than a fireball dealing 15D6 damage! I think sunfire is a very capable spell. There's also no danger of harming the caster like there is for a fireball or skull trap spell."

I didn't quite get this one. Skull Trap is availabe earlier, and deals better damage. A simple aiming will prevent damaging the caster.

The point I'm trying to make here is that skull trap deals 1D6 per caster level. Level 5 spells first become available at level 9, therefore a level 9 skull trap will deal 9D6 damage. A sunfire cast at the same level will deal 15D6, and hence has much more potential for lower level mages.

Not true. CMW cures 14 damage. CSW cures 17. 17 - 14 =

My bad. I've been playing too much IWD! Cure moderate only heals 11hp in IWD.

Check out the description. The Manual is wrong - Protecion from Fire (both Arcane and Divine) grants 100% resistance. Havn't checked into the duration part.

Sorry, I worded this wrong. The divine version grants +80% resistance to *magic* fire, the arcane version grants +50% resistance to *magic* fire. Both grant 100% resistance to normal fire. The durations are different, as are the casting times, so these spells are definatley not identical.

Toughness is not all about HP. We're also talking about AC, resistances, immunities, etc...

Aerial servant: AC = 3, HP=128, saving throws: 4,6,5,4,7, resistances: none
Mountain Bear: AC = 6, HP=70, saving throws: 8,10,9,10,11, resistances: none

Hmm, both have equal resistances, but the aerial servant has a better armour class, superior HP and superior saving throws. I still can't agree with the statement that mountain bears are as tough as aerial servants [img]smile.gif[/img] .

I'll have to look into natures beauty if that is the case.

Thank you for the great reply.

NP [img]smile.gif[/img] . I'll try and get some more feedback for tommorrow too [img]smile.gif[/img] .

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by Alson: [QB]Are you 100% sure about this? I'm quite sure they can't. The only way to cast a spell on a shimering target is ForceSpell(), which most liches don't use.

I am a nut that does not use PfU scrolls when fighting Liches. I got the scars to prove it.

That's because me and Xyx are quite heavy on the offensive playing style. Littiz is the one that tries to balance it out. [img]smile.gif[/img] We believe that resistances are usually irrelevent - if they can't see you (aka Mislead(TM)), they can't kill you. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I am a player that believes that a good defense is a good offense too, but even then, one will still need defenses to cover all possible contingencies. Bosses and such will not follow the rules, so unless you enjoy having your a** being exposed to them, best to frustrate them by taunting them with, "Hit me again! Hit me again! I need the healing!". Jim should be able to empathise with me here. Although his one deals with healing from physical damage.

Dundee, you already know my PoV about spell protections and the like. I learnt it from Xyx.

Even if you dislike using Pierce Shield, at least correct the analogy or people might get the wrong idea that PS will get rid of Spell Trap. Remember, it is remove one level 8 spell and -30% Magic Resistance for a level 20+ Mage.

Name 10 enemy mages in a non moded game that use Skull Trap or ADHW. And MM is usually the last spell in the Mages script. Littiz is a big fun of this spell, though - maybe we can be slightly less harsh about it.

Hmmmm... Jon Irenicus, Shahagalar, Kangaxx, Suneer, Tolgerias, Lavok, and some more? These are the ones with ADHW, there should be more using Skull Traps. Perhaps it is because I have the Improved Mages/Liches Mod that I love PfEnergy so much, but at least put a footnote to indicate that the value of the spell increases dramatically with Mods.

IMO, FoD is pathetic. Nature's Beauty is sorta like an Area of Affect FoD for Druids (Die, or be Blinded and THEN die), and if you're facing Fire Giants, your cleric should have at least one HLA anyway. Deva will slaughter a Fire Giant anyday, and will do soooo much more.

Try casting Nature's Beauty with a solo Sorcerer or Mage. [img]tongue.gif[/img] FoD is not pathetic. It has by default, a -2 saving penalty which is pretty good already. Greater Malison ensures more or less that it will work, but even without Greater Malison, its' success rate is remarkable in SoA->ToB. There is a reason why it has always been a mainstay in my spell lists since the beginning.

I havn't, either. Are you sure? I will test it, and if you're right, we'll reword.

You are talking to a guy who likes to summon 100 Skeleton Warriors and sic them on the enemy. You do not see me casting Incendiary Clouds over them as well do you? This is easily testable, simply cast Ice Storm or any equivalent spell and send in a Skeleton Warrior. They are immuned to cold, but they will still go hostile because the spell was from YOU. This is NOT IWD, summons will go hostile when hit by AoE spells casted by you. The chance to go hostile is not 100%, but akin to 95%.

If this was not the case, I would have long ago abandon ADHW and choose Incendiary Cloud to use in conjunction with Skeleton Warriors.

Malison and Doom helps any spell, so it's not an example. And the cheesy use of it is mentioned.

GM and Doom does help most spells, but as before, even without them, Feeblemind still has a -2 save penalty by default.

I wholly agree - you know how much i like SI. I talked to Xyx about it many times, but it's HIS guide, after all. He has the final word, and he doesn't like it as much as we do. A matter of style, i guess.

I can empathise with that, since people think I am crazy to exclude Breach from my SSSL.

Can't wait. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Thanks for the reply. I was waiting to hear from you.

No problem, although the greatest obstacle will be to settle the clash of opinions.
--------

Resist Fear A surprisingly useful area spell. Protects the whole party from a disabling effect for a long time. has a specific use to counter Symbol, Fear (very popular among enemy Mages), Horror, and Dragon or Demon Fear abilities. Watch out for panicked party members running out of its area of effect. Leave this to priests; they get it cheaper.

And I say not. Or at least not for pre-battle buffs. Resist Fear lasts for one hour, Remove Fear lasts for 2 turns. Big difference. Remove Fear is more akin to a battle spell, to be used in the midst of battle. Resist Fear is much superior as a pre-battle buff.

Flame Arrow An excellent single target damage spell, comparable to Melf's Acid Arrow.

This is like saying a M-16 is comparable to a Berreta. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

For a level 20+ Mage, Melf's Acid Arrow deals 14-56 Acid Damage in seven rounds. "Compare" this to Flame Arrow which does 4-24 Piercing Damage + 16-96 Fire Damage, 2-12 PiDmg + 8-48 FiDmg if target saves vs spells. 3 of these in a Spell Sequencer means KO to a Beholder or an Elder Orb.

Melf's Minute Meteors A truly wonderful spell. Thrown at the rate of five per round. The damage comes in three parts: normal, the +3 magical bonus, and 3 fire damage. This causes them to remove three Stoneskins per hit, ~~

I am not 100% sure, but judging from the MMMs that enemy Mages throw at me, it only removes one skin per hit.

Spellstrike The ultimate magic shield removal but not a serious improvement on its level 8 counterpart Ruby Ray. Most enemies cast a single spell protection at a time. That plus the easy workarounds make this a waste of a level 9 slot. Spell Shield will stop this.

Actually, Spellstrike is much sadder than that, because RRoR is only level 7.

Summon Planetar ~~ A one-creature-army and the best first pick for solo mages.

Personal opinion, but best second pick I would say. Improved Alacrity at level 18 does a whole lot more than Summon Planetar.

Oh, and I agree with Jim. List out all the save penalties to avoid confusion. Correct ones can be in black. I will go through the Divine List another time.

[Alson]

The big brother is listening!

I refered Xyx to your feedback, guys.
Here is his reply:

Xyx's Email to Alson: OK, could read it now. Lessee... Good feedback! I've included my comments here. Relay to them what you wish. This was from Jim: "It seems that you've mentioned the saving throw bonus/penalty that some spells give, but not all of them. In order to make the guide consistent, I'd suggest mentioning all the saving throw modifiers for applicable spells." Won't do. That would be totally redundant since it merely duplicates the manual. The reason SOME saves ARE mentioned is to emphasize the use[ful/less]ness of particular spells. "There was a comment about the use any item ability, to allow a thief to use Carsomyr, Human Flesh, Ring of Gaxx, Amulet of Seradine to provide 90% MR. I know these items were only given as examples, but Carsomyr grants 50% MR, not +50% MR, so you can see the MR stack only if you equip the Carsomyr first, then the other items, but the first time you actually use Carsomyr, its 50% MR will be applied and override any other bonuses (apart from innate MR), so this combination won't actually give 90% MR." This I don't get. If you start off with Carsomyr, you get 90%, right? So what is he talking about? "The above comment about Charisma is a little vague. This discount depends entirely on the actual CHA value. Discounts stop advancing after a CHA of 20, with 20 giving the maximum discount of 25%. Example (prices in brackets reflect percentage discount): Staff of Rynn +4, Base cost: 22275 16 CHA = 21060 (5%) 17 CHA = 19980 (10%) 18 CHA= 18900 (15%) 19 CHA= 17820 (20%) 20 CHA= 16605 (25%)" Is this true? I've never been able to get another discount than 10%, even with 24 Charisma. "Sword Spiders have 5 attacks per round, not 4 as was referenced by the spider spawn spell (as creatures they have 4 APR base, but have permament haste)." Good point. In it goes. "Cone of Cold was referenced as above, but name another spell that deals upto 20D4+20 damage for level 5" Skull Trap. Same average, only level 3. "It was suggested to take skull trap over sunfire, but sunfire is available by level 9 (so a skull trap would do 9D6 at this equivalent level) and deals 50% more damage than a fireball dealing 15D6 damage! I think sunfire is a very capable spell. There's also no danger of harming the caster like there is for a fireball or skull trap spell." What's this "9D6 is 50% more than 15d6" business? "I wouldn't refer to Protection from Acid as "Worthless" since it makes one particular engagement in the game much easier and it lasts an age (upto 20 turns)." Noted. Plus a spoiler disclaimer on the home page. =D "This is a tiny nitpick, but it's not possible to have rep of less than 1." Noted. Xyx hates typos indeed. =D "There was also a comment about the Aerial Servant being about as touch as a mountain bear. In fact, the AS is much tougher with 128 HP compared to 70 HP." Indeed, hit points aren't everything. In my admittedly limited testing, the mountain bear kicked the crap out of the Aerial Servant about half the time. Now that I check them out with Near Infinity, I do indeed get the clear impression that the bears were just lucky. The Servant is WAY better. "I've also never understood the fascination with Natures Beauty. They get a +3 bonus to the save or die, and the blindness only affects a tiny 5 foot radius around the caster, so I'm not sure how you disable half the battlefield with this one. It's a good spell, but there are much better 7th level divine spells IMO." The possibility of this being true shocked me so much that I went ahead and verified it. Lined up a dozen hobgoblin archers and cast Nature's Beauty. Half was killed, and those that were in the "kill range" that lived were ALL blinded. This is from Dundee: "A little nitpick about Spike Traps. They do not affect everybody. The blue guardians in Watcher's Keep level 5 are immuned to them." Noted. "Liches can and will cast on you with direct-damage spells even if you are totally invisible. This applies to other enemies that can see through invisibility." This kind of figures, but I made a tiny mention about it. "ADD] The website seems leery of having high resistances, judging from the way it described the various Protection from ~~ spells, but resistances should not be underestimated, and should be highly embraced at all times. Healing from the enemy is a wonderful power tactic, and there is no problem with spell disruption because you can just choose to cast when the enemy is not casting. Remember, if they cannot hurt you, they cannot kill you." Enemies that totally depend on one type of elemental damage are pretty rare... Stuff like dragons does elemental damage and physical damage, spellcasters do a wide variety of elemental damages, and you never know which one comes first. Then Alson says this: "me and Xyx are quite heavy on the offensive playing style." I'm not too heavy on the offensive style, I just think that there are better ways to spend a level 8 spell slot than PARTIAL protection against SOME of your opponents attacks. FULL protection is great, I give you that, but full protection is hard to get since it usually requires physical protections as well. OK, maybe if you have a stack of Protections from Magical Weapons lined up... Will reword slightly (again). "Pierce Shield was a bit of misinformation as well. It is not a RRoR+Weaker Lower Resistance, but a Secret Word+Lower Resistance. At level 20, both LR and PS lowers the enemy's Magic Resistance by 30%. 3 of these in a Chain Contingency is extremely scary to an enemy Mage. Take out one and throw in a RRoR if the target has Spell Trap." This I don't get. Besides wondering why you'd need to remove an enemy Spell Trap or lower a mage's resistance, why Secret Word instead of Ruby Ray of Reversal? "[about Protection from Energy] I wholely disagree with this. 75% resistance to Fire/Cold/Electricity/Acid/Magic Damage is not to be sniffed at. Combine with the Belt of Inertial Barrier and you heal from Magic Missile/Skull Trap/ADHW. Combine with other equipment, and you gain immunity and healing when possible. This spell should not be underestimated." Let's just say I like Simulacrum and Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting a LOT better. If you really need to buff up before a fight, use several of the lower level ones. "[about Finger of Death] He's kidding right? I was slaying Fire Giants and Dragons in ToB with this spell. They key here is Greater Malison." No, he's not kidding. Compare this to the payload of a Project Image and the difference should be obvious. Besides, Polymorph Other is a pretty viable and MUCH cheaper alternative if you're going to use Greater Malison. "[about Raise Dead] Your friend does know that "even if your summon does not get hurt, it will go hostile", right?" No, he doesn't. In fact, he was so shocked by the possibility this could be so that he decided to verify it on the spot. Skull Trapped two Skeleton Warriors. One got hit and turned hostile, the other was unaffected and stayed friendly. "[about Feeblemind] Mediocre my a**. Feeblemind is the reason why I managed to kill Abazigal with a Dispel Magic. It has a -2 save penalty, combine with Greater Malison for a -6 penalty. Throw in Doom for a -8 penalty." Mediocre because one spell at a lower level does about the same, and one spell at the same level does something better. Some people seem to think that every spell is good "since you can combine with Greater Malison". Does that make every spell good, or just Greater Malison? "[about Protection from Acid] Level 5 you mean." Oops. Good catch. Xyx hates typos. [img]smile.gif[/img] "[about Spell Immunity] Urm... rightttt... SI is one of the best protection spells in the game. I laugh at Kangaxx and all other Liches because of this spell." Well, how many Kangaxxes do you meet? And what's so useful against other liches? Protecting against their Symbol, Symbol, Symbol sequence? Back to Jim... "[about Shield] it was stated that this spell does not protect from MM in IWD. I was merely saying that it does" Ah. Noted. I don't have IWD, alas. "a level 9 skull trap will deal 9D6 damage. A sunfire cast at the same level will deal 15D6" Where'd he get that idea? A level 9 Sunfire does 9d6 damage. "The divine version grants +80% resistance to *magic* fire, the arcane version grants +50% resistance to *magic* fire. Both grant 100% resistance to normal fire. The durations are different, as are the casting times, so these spells are definatley not identical." Ah, noted. Certainly not identical. There's no magic fire damage that I know of, though. =D Great feedback! These guys have my thanks. [img]smile.gif[/img] Xyx

[ 11-04-2002, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Alson ]

[Dundee Slaytern]

Armor of Faith Effective for a level 1 spell, especially at higher levels. Its fast casting time allows for casting in between attacks. Good for front liners. Note that this spell sets resistance and is not cumulative with items.

Judging by my Cavalier, it does stack with other items.

Doom Very minor effect, but no save. Do not have your Clerics or Druids waste their spellcasting opportunities on this, but since it casts fast, Paladins and Rangers could cast one in between attacks when fighting big monsters. Note that Doom does not ignore magic resistance.

Erm... I get the impressive that your friend is not utilising the full potential of all the spells by being so negative towards those that allow a saving throw. Doom is one of the level one spell for a Priest. A -2 penalty to THACO, AC and saving throws is an excellent bargain for a fast casting level one spell.

Resist Fire/Cold A sad spell, even though priests have plenty of slots to burn at level 2. Gives only 50% resistance (which is no good) and does not last long enough to conveniently cast in between battles.

Gah! His apathy to elemental resistances bugs me. [img]tongue.gif[/img] It was because of this spell that my Cavalier could laugh at many a Fire-Breathing Dragon or stand in a pit of lava while fighting Fire Giants. It is not the most fantastic spell out there, but it is useful, and not a sad spell.

Cure Medium Wounds Upgrage to Cure Light Wounds, but still not very exciting. Do not use in combat (or at all...).

Typo, "Upgrade".

Miscast Magic Enemy spellcaster scripts will not be aware of an 80% spell failure effect and happily keep trying to cast. Rather limited use and not spectacular.

Erm... 80% spell failure is good... Not as fantastic as Insect Plague or Creeping Doom, but those are level 5 and 7 spells respectively. For a level 3 spell, this spell is effective.

Remove Curse The only way to actually get cursed in this game is being stupid enough to equip a cursed item. Rather inexcusable. Druids are spared this spell.

I do not suppose he gambles with the Cambion? The only reason why I carry around a scroll of Remove Curse for my Sorcerer.

Zone of Sweet Air Stationary area damage is easily turned against your enemies because of your vastly superior tactical insights... Right? Be grateful when someone casts Cloudkill, do not get rid of it. Clerics and Jaheira only, for some strange reason.

I prefer to get rid of them actually. Incendiary Clouds, Death Fog, and their ilk are quite a PITA. I usually memorise one.

Animal Summoning I The lowliest of the divine summons. Not very impressive, but still fodder. An added bonus is that friendly fire does not turn the animals hostile.

Friendly fire will turn the animals hostile.

Aerial Servant Starts out invisible and is much tougher than a single Mountain Bear. Its invisibility and immunity to normal weapons make it extra useful in specific situations (such as fighting Mind Flayers). An excellent spell. Clerics only.

Eh? You got the "much tougher than a single Mountain Bear" right, but... two things.

1) They are not invisible
2) They suck against Mind Flayers

Regeneration Not an awe-inspiring healing spell. The advantage of Regeneration over other healing spells is that it can be cast before you get hurt, but the duration is a bit short and the damage healed is less than fantastic. This spell is not in the manual.

Regeneration is possibly one of the cheesiest spells ever! If you have it active and haste yourself... you practically become a Slayer without the danger and reputation loss! Combine with the Ring of Gaxx for more oodles of cheese sticks!

Summon Deva The ultimate clerical summon. Calls forth a powerful Solar armed with a mace that destroys undead, dispels magic and Stuns on a hit. The thing's fighting ability compares to that of a level 10 Fighter, has good magic resistance and is immune to various elemental damages, insta-kill effects ~~

The "insta-kill" effect only applies to Undead.