GRRM's A Feast For Crows Discussion Thread - SPOILERS HERE (but not till 2nd post)

[Memnoch]

G'day everyone, I finally finished AFFC (end of exams had something to do with that). One word - bloody excellent. 4.5 out of 5. I had some doubts after reading some negative feedback from people both on the GRRM forum as well as a few other sci-fi/fantasy sites but on completing it he hasn't lost his touch. Things don't move in as fast a pace as the earlier books but it's still very immersive and engrossing. I felt that GRRM really managed to capture the feeling of the chaos of southern Westeros and the Iron Islands with this book - there are some new characters presented (spoilers below) and some MAJOR plot twists at the end of this book!!!

One of the criticisms of the book has been that we don't hear from some of the other characters in the earlier novels (as they'll be presented in ADWD next year hopefully!!!). I didn't mind this too much. You only miss them at the start - but as you get into the book you start to get engaged with the characters who ARE presented in AFFC. In fact, the only negative about the fact that Jon, Dany, Bran etc are not there is the fact that since the focus will be on them in ADWD it means that we won't get to find out what happened to the characters in THIS book until the book after ADWD!! [img]graemlins/awcrap.gif[/img] That's why I only gave it 4.5 out of 5. I reckon it would've been better for GRRM to have split the book in half, rather than make us wait two books to find out what happens to Jaime, Cersei etc.

Anwway...I thought we'd start a thread discussiing the plot, any revelations, or any insights regarding AFFC. These spoilers will commence on the second post below, so if you haven't finished AFFC then DO NOT CONTINUE!!!!!

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But if you HAVE finished AFFC.............
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....then I would LOVE to hear your views and opinions! Read on.

[Memnoch]

OKAY, you've been warned! Spoilers coming. Here are some insights I thought I'd post on AFFC:

1. Sir Jaime has just about become one of my favourite characters. He's really done an about face from when he threw Bran out the window in AGOT. I'm trying to understand what caused this big change of why he started to value the white cloak so much more??? Was it being captured and losing his hand or was it Brienne? Brienne seems to have changed him to the point where 33+ years of loving Cersei have been turned around in a few short months. You could argue that Brienne appears to be the "knight" that Jaime wished he was?

3. Lady Catelyn does not seem like a very nice person anymore, eh. Being dead for 3 days probably does that to you. Anyone get the vibe that Thoros wasn't too happy with her resurrection after being dead so long? She seems full of hate (understandably so).

4. Dany seems to be "the prince that was promised", according to Maester Aemon. How I wished Aemon had lived, he seemed to be someone with a wealth of information on the past. He obviously was hoping to be one of the "three heads of the dragon" that the prophecy talked about. At first I thought the three heads were the people who would ride the dragons, now it appears that they're the advisors Dany will need. Ser Barristan seems to be one head. Maybe Archmaester Marwyn the second? And Doran Martell the third?

5. Doran Martell is NOT the timid, inoffensive bloke he seemed at the start. He may yet be the most calculating of all the schemers. He's been planning the Lannisters' downfall for 15 years. I'm really looking foward to seeing how he fits in with Dany's return.

6. Cersei is the most unlikeable character in this series. I can usually find some redeeming qualities in each GRRM character, no matter how bad they are - but Cersei doesn't seem to have any. She is singlehandedly responsible for plunging the realm into chaos by killing Robert, and her machinations are so petty it's absurd and came back to bite her bigtime. I look forward to her "trial by the Faith". Greed gone mad. Even reading her POVs were a struggle. I kept thinking, geez this b!tch is so stupid!!!

7. Littlefinger is pretty devious but not as devious as Doran Martell. I feel Littlefinger will be found out at some stage. He has nothing to rely on but his wits, and the more power he vests in Sansa the more leverage he gives her. Anyone got the feeling there'll be some kind of tryst between him and his "daughter" Sansa soon?

8. Gregor Clegane STILL lives!! Qyburn dropped enough hints. I knew from Bran's premonition in AGOT that he would be very important. Is there a remote chance he can be named to the Kingsguard if one of the current members kicks the bucket? I'm sure Qyburn could arrange for another "experiment" with a Sworn Brother.

9. The Crow's Eye seems a bit one-dimensional at this stage. I was hoping to get a bit more insight into his character. So far I haven't got a good read on him, aside from the fact that he's been to Valyria.

10. Snowfall in the riverlands at the end of the book shows that winter is well and truly coming. And there is no Stark in Winterfell, and the land has been shattered by war. It'll be a really harsh winter eh. And from AGOT it's rare to snow in the riverlands in autumn.

11. I'm extremely curious about Valyria. FASCINATED, actually. We learned a bit more about it - there are fiery mountains called the Fourteen Flames (volcanoes?) that still burn in the shattered remains of the Freehold. I reckon the Doom happened when the Valyrians delved too deep and set off a chain explosion that destroyed their lands.

12. Do you guys think that House Targaryen was the ruling house of Valyria, or just a minor House? If they were the ruling House why were they based on Dragonstone so far away from Valyria itself? I know they escaped the Doom by being on Dragonstone, but why were they there in the first place? And why did Valyria never invade Westeros pre-Doom (when I imagine there would've been more dragons and more armies).

13. The Faceless Men CAN cast spells, according to the kindly old man. I wonder how long before Arya can cast? He said many many years. If GRRM's gotten rid of the 5yr gap how will she learn to cast by the end of the series?

14. Dany had a premonition in Book 2 or 3 - she dreamed she was Rhaegar on the Trident, but she was flying on dragonback instead of on a horse, and her enemies were coated in ice apparently. I think this is a symbol of the fact that she's the only hope Westeros has against the Others. Her and her dragons will have to be the shield that guards the realms of men from the white walkers as I believe the Wall will fall. Where will she get the flaming sword? Or is this a metaphor for some champion of hers who will arise? Jon perhaps? Or Quentyn Martell?

15. Who took Margaery Tyrell's maidenhead?

16. Valar morghulis means "all men must die". Valar dohaeris must mean "all men must serve"?

Just some random thoughts...I'll add more as I think of them. I would love to hear feedback from fellow aficionados on these.

[ 11-30-2005, 04:33 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

[shadowhound]

I am definatly looking forward to Cersei's fate, she is an extremely unlikable character. Also would love to see more happenings with the Greyjoys.

[Memnoch]

Yes, an entire chapter devoted to Cersei's humiliation would be nice. [img]graemlins/evillaughter2.gif[/img]

[Memnoch]

Some more points:

1. Is Arya really blind? Does this mean that being Faceless means losing your senses?

2. Valar morghulis means "all men must die". Valar dohaeris must mean "all men must serve".

3. The lightning lord finally kicked the bucket - in a very casual and "by the way" way too.

4. What word did Brienne scream out at the end of her section?

[Davros]

15. A horse of course [img]smile.gif[/img] .

[Memnoch]

Which horse?

[Timber Loftis]

Skipped a bunch of possible spoiler posts just to post it will be a while before I can contribute, but I WILL. I haven't finished it, of course.

Gaw, it's hard not to read them, though.

Anyway, I personally am getting a little bit fed up w/ his writing. His format is getting too sing-songy. Whenever a character enters a scene, you can skip a paragraph, assured that all he discussed was the specifics of their garb and hair cut and other accoutrements. The guy needs a lesson in apt use of adjectives.

[Memnoch]

Really, I love his writing. There are very few writers who can use words like "jape" or "folly" the way he does.

[Luvian]

I have the urge to read this thread for spoilers and it's very hard to resist. I don't have the book yet and I'm desperate for AFFC info.