New Russian Jet MPEG -- Amazing!

[Jimbo]

Well said John D. I was gonna have to say it, but its the team, not the aircraft that win the battle and war.

I believe the vector thrus delta wing x-craft was the FX-16 (don't ask, usually they get some funkier "x" designation, i'll check on jane or usaf page, there usually is a listing of all the x-type craft available [well the one's they release to gp]).

Case in point, a lot of our active duty fighter wings hate to go up against some of the air force guard units, because the Air guards have been doing it for years and know each other and there team like the back of there hand. The average time for a wing to be together is less than a year for all pilots (2-3 years on duty station normally for each member).

Doing some great performace I will say, don't know the exact g's they will be able to do though (with out killing the pilot-same problem everyone has). It ranks up there in aerial manueverability with the Harrier, A-10, F-16, and F-18. Only problem is that soviet block hasn't caught up in Command, Control, and Communications, i.e. why the Iraqs got blow out of the sky as soon as they went up. Aamram's and phoniex can hit from way away (50+NM more than the old sparrow system), especially with E-3 or E-2 aircraft up in the air all the time.

One on one fight with say a F-18 and the new Soviet SU would be cool, but then again, we would never let the fight get that way

One thought though, you know how you can go to Russia and pay money to go for a ride in the SU-29? Well imagine if they do that with this puppy! Whoot! I'm saving my money


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Drink and be merry
Jimbo
"Renegade, Rebel, and Rogue"

[Djinn Raffo]

Ziroc!
Is that from Art Bell?
Once I was planting in Northern Alberta and on the radio
in the absolute middle of nowhere the only station we were recieving was
one that had Art Bell on it.
I remember one time he had a recording of these sounds from russia.
I guess some russian miners had unearthed a massive cavern somewhere and there
were these crazy sounds emenating from it. Rip roaring wind sounds and some
crazy tormented screaming. Art said "Have these russian miners unearthed a
portal to Hell?"
It sure sounded like it!

[John D Harris]

Thanks Jimbo, the FX-16 sounds right

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"the memories of a man in his old age,
are deeds of a man in his prime"

Originally posted by John D Harris: Harriers can do similar manuvers The UK used the moves in the Falkans (sp?)Islands war.

The vector movement in air to air combat (in a harrier) is known as "Ziffing". I had always thought that the first people to do this were the USMC in their AV-8A Harriers

The video while interesting has NO referance point of speed, there are engineers and mathmations(sp?) that can figure out the limits of the SU.

I have seen an SU-27 doing aerobatics, the speeds are normally quite low, but this family of aircraft are exceptionally nimble. It is said that the airframe is the best in the world, although the engines are not that great. At one time they were offered to the UK with British Aerospace replacing the engines, avionics and weapon systems which would have made the best fighter in the world at the time. The Su-27 was ultimately rejected on issues of spares and NATO standardisation. (and no doubt pressure from western arms manufacturers )

The way to win any dogfight is to fight your fight not your opponents fight.

I think a pilot would tell you the trick is speed, as this can always be used to gain an advantage (running away if necessary ) oh and to always "check six"

WWII the Japanese Zero could out manuver all US fighters all day long and twice on Sunday. The US Navy won the air war because of tactics, we fought our fight and made them fight our fight.

I also think a pilot shortage in Japan by 1944 and a lack of gasoline played a significant part too. Japanese wasted too many pilots in Kamikazes and unwise strategic decsions to have an experienced pilots.

A similar thing happened in the late 60's with the MIG-25 it came out and the USAF freaked they then created the F-15. It turned out the MIG-25 was just fast other than that it sucked. The F-15 is the best air-superiority fighter on this planet.

I'd take issue here, the 25 was designed as a high speed interceptor to protect USSr against B-70 Supersonic Valkyrie Bombers. The US cancelled the B-70 but the 25 was two far developed to be cancelled. The 25 is not that agile, it wasn't designed to be it is an interceptor, fast an with good endurance and long range missiles. The British ADV Tornado is much the same it to is not a dogfighter, the airframe is modified from that of the IDS ground attack variant.

FYI in the mid 70's the USAF was working on the Sleath fighter F-117 a full 10 years before the american public ever heard of steath. The only reason I know is that my Father was a fighter pilot and aeronautical engineer and did some early work on them. He wouldn't ever say until the USAF anounced the F-117 existance in the late 80's.

Except that the F-117A is not a fighter despite the name, it is a bomber, I don't think it has provision for Air to Air missiles. Besides when I spoke to a Stealth pilot a few years ago he said it wasn't a great aircraft to fly, again not that nimble.

Most of the secret goodies that are out there won't be known for years after they have been developed.

Well if its worth having its worth having in quantity (well as many as the budget will stretch to ) so once the aircraft goes into full service it normally becomes public. Certainly in Europe airspace is too crowded to have too many secret flights. Also look at the Eurofighter and F22, both have been common knowledge for over 10 years almost open source development

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Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger



[This message has been edited by Sir_Tainly (edited 05-16-2001).]

[caleb]

That thing doesnt look like its fast enough to dodge a missile.

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Welcome to hell.

[WOLFGIR]

Hmm unfortunately the only footage of JAS Gripen is when it crashes, though it has the best turning system yet and a complete new G-force suit that is really advanced. Sorry that I can´t tell you any more about it..

The SU can carry three JAS fully loaded (nearly!)

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WOLF WINS EVERY FIGHT BUT ONE, AND IN THAT ONE, HE DIES

[Throntar]

I'm going to have to chime in here as I'm directly involved in this industry...

The new Su-37 is impressive. Sukhoi has been working on it for years and they claim that it can blow anything out of the air. However, first of all, they (Russians) can't afford to build it, and secondly, no one will buy it because of the lack of offered support and the historically shitty airframes that Sukhoi builds. I'm sure that bad boy can hit 9 Gs, but what happens when at 9 Gs the wings and/or another section of the airframe get stress fractures. You're basically screwed due to reputedly poor support on the part of Sukhoi. If your airframe quality is shit, then you're screwed the first time you have stress issues. Your a/c is going to be down for months.

As for thrust vectoring...it *is* impressive. Yes, the F-22 is supposedly going to have some of the same properties. Can you use it efficiently at high speeds though??? I doubt it. I'd put an American F-15E up against anything that flies and put all my money on that horse.

The last factor that is missing here is the US aircraft's "ultra long range" radars. There are hardly any countries out there that can match our targeting radars. Crap, an old piece of crap F-14 Tomcat can target and fire on a bogey from over 40 miles away. Never even see it coming...

My second choice would be the F/A-18E (or F) ***BTW, it is the "F/A-18"...not "F-18"*** up against anything else out there. Lots of capabilities in these a/c that surprise people.

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Now where did I leave that doughnut?!

My favorite USAF Jet is the Blackbird! And most are just sitting around rusting out.. not in service.. those suckers could reach the closest to the earths orbit.. (It was the Blackbird right?)


Ziroc

[Throntar]

Originally posted by Ziroc: My favorite USAF Jet is the Blackbird! And most are just sitting around rusting out.. not in service.. those suckers could reach the closest to the earths orbit.. (It was the Blackbird right?) Ziroc

The Blackbird is the nickname for the SR-71. They were all retired in the 80s, but some were brought out of retirement for service in the Balkans (lower level recon a/c were getting tracked and shot at by SAMs and shoulder-launch rockets). Not really sure if any are still in service or not though.

Good story regarding the SR-71. My old man is a retired Air Traffic Controller. One time when he was working high altitude airspace, he was contacted by a SR-71 pilot for some sort of routine instrumentation check that he needed help with (typically, ATC knows when these guys are around...but they are under military control and typically radio silence is observed unless the pilot initiates with Civilian ATC or something dire drives civ. ATC to contact him/her).

My Dad asked the pilot to say what his altitude was. The pilot responded that that info. is "need to know" and why does he want to know. My old man then proceeded to make some smart-ass ficticious remark about a Cessna 172 flying somewhere in the area and that they didn't want him to collide with the Blackbird. He said that pilot laughed and said something like, "Well, if he makes it up to 87,000 feet then let me know and I'll go evasive.".

Whew! Can you even imagine being at 87,000 feet? Most commercial traffic stays around 30,000 feet"ish", and the highest I've ever piloted an a/c was about 12,000. Yikes!

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Now where did I leave that doughnut?!

[adam warlock]

feh it's ok

I could imagine the pilot having a headache afterwards...

it's no Star War's 'X-wing'