Magic

[Bruce The Aussie]

i belive magic could exist in the universe. i'm not sure though. hell, i don't know if i exist. (i'm serious about this, unless someone can undeniably prove i exist i don't belive it [img]smile.gif[/img] ) all i know is weird unexplained things happen in the universe that either i don't understand or just aren't understandable (aka magic) ermm....i've stopped making sense so i think i'll shut up now....

[Chewbacca]

To some magic is slight of hand, Illusions made up of smoke and mirrors.

To others magic is insidious, a twisted unseen force that bends the will of those that dabble in it.

Still others say magic is an unseen force to be controled and used, for it is the human will magic can bend to.

And to others magic is the moist dirt of the earth, the rays of the sun, the flight of birds and the speech of man.

While to other people magic is the ritual of religion, age old method of blessing and cursing.

And others say magic is the ritual of evil, punishable for eternity.

Ultimately, what is magic is in the eye of the beholder. I beleive in 3, 4, and 5 respectfully.

edit- ooooo

[ 05-06-2003, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[harleyquinn]

Originally posted by slicer15: Well, I say that, because God wouldn't give that sort of power to people. Satan specifically promises power to draw people away. God just would not give people that power. I need to get details of this to back myself up...sorry...

Again, you're assuming this. If you believe in God, then you need to believe that God can do what he wants with his power. Also, quoting the bible to back up your claim would not fit either because it was written centuries ago. Are you telling me humans can change their mind about something, but God cannot? Or, maybe, humans have progressed to the point, that God now feels he can start giving them some of that power, much like as a child gets older, a parent gives them more responsiblities. I'm just presenting a point of view you may have not thought of.

[Mojo]

Originally posted by Bruce The Aussie: hell, i don't know if i exist. (i'm serious about this, unless someone can undeniably prove i exist i don't belive it [img]smile.gif[/img]

What is undeniable proof then, Bruce? To some, feeling the presence of God is undeniable proof, and to others a mathematic explaination is undeniable. To cynics and pedants like me, both examples above are flawed and subject to unknown variables....

[slicer15]

Originally posted by harleyquinn: quote: Originally posted by slicer15: Well, I say that, because God wouldn't give that sort of power to people. Satan specifically promises power to draw people away. God just would not give people that power. I need to get details of this to back myself up...sorry...

Again, you're assuming this. If you believe in God, then you need to believe that God can do what he wants with his power. Also, quoting the bible to back up your claim would not fit either because it was written centuries ago. Are you telling me humans can change their mind about something, but God cannot? Or, maybe, humans have progressed to the point, that God now feels he can start giving them some of that power, much like as a child gets older, a parent gives them more responsiblities. I'm just presenting a point of view you may have not thought of. [/QUOTE]Yeah, I know, but the Bible...well...I guess not. But if God gives out His power for others to use, what is the point? Most likely people will use it for their own ends or to harm people. I just don't think He would do that, my personal belief I guess. I get a lot of advice from the leader at our youth group (Christian youth group, I mean) and she has been a mentor to me. Yes I am assuming, but then, saying that God may give His power like that to humans is also assuming. Now, I know you don't believe that, as you explicitly said that, but if anyone does say that, thats assuming as well. We will only know when we die, when we are no longer resctricted by our flesh and blood brain. We have limits to our understanding during life...maybe after life, everything becomes clearer.

Also, I'm not saying God cannot change His mind, but He did have a "plan" from the beginning which He will not go against, because that is His plan to save the world. He doesn't break promises, otherwise he wouldn't be God. He doesn't change His plan as He goes along, as He knows absolutely everything. That is a difficult concept to understand, but something I believe from what I experienced and been taught.

[Bruce The Aussie]

Originally posted by Mojo: quote: Originally posted by Bruce The Aussie: hell, i don't know if i exist. (i'm serious about this, unless someone can undeniably prove i exist i don't belive it [img]smile.gif[/img]

What is undeniable proof then, Bruce? To some, feeling the presence of God is undeniable proof, and to others a mathematic explaination is undeniable. To cynics and pedants like me, both examples above are flawed and subject to unknown variables.... [/QUOTE]you see now you've hit on the fun part. existance can never be proven. no matter how hard you try.

[harleyquinn]

Yes, but anyone who's ever worked on any project can tell you, plans change as variables change.

[Mojo]

Good point, Bruce....

You must have faith in something to belive you exist, even if it's as mundane as beliving your own eyes....but then, we've all seen the Matrix....

[slicer15]

Originally posted by harleyquinn: Yes, but anyone who's ever worked on any project can tell you, plans change as variables change.

But like I said, God doesn't change His plan. [img]smile.gif[/img] He says so in the Bible, and He has planned everything that has happened so far. He didn't change any of it, He kept things as they were. You'll probably say I am assuming again, so I will probably give up. But everything I've said, about magic, Satan and God, remains firm.

[Mojo]

Originally posted by slicer15: quote: Originally posted by harleyquinn: Yes, but anyone who's ever worked on any project can tell you, plans change as variables change.

But like I said, God doesn't change His plan. [img]smile.gif[/img] He says so in the Bible, and He has planned everything that has happened so far. He didn't change any of it, He kept things as they were. You'll probably say I am assuming again, so I will probably give up. But everything I've said, about magic, Satan and God, remains firm. [/QUOTE]Surely He can change His plan if he wants....who's going to stop him?

Also, if God really is omnipotent, He can control time as well, which means He really could be making it up as He goes along.....

No offence intended....