Assassin abilities nerfed from AD&D

[Kyrvias]

For alot of people ,an Assassin would be viewed as one who knows how to kill opponents with strikes to pressure points and so forth.

In AD&D the Assassin had a special ability, which in BGII could have been tremendously helpful. This ability had to do with surprising a victim. Instead of using the normal attack tables, the assassin would use the assination table, unless the afore mentioned "surprise" doesn't occur.

This gave a roughly 50% chance taht the assassin would instantly kill the victim. and if it fails, then normal damage according to weapon type and strength ability modifiers are then used.

Another ability that was ignored was the ability to disguise the assassin to appear human, semi-human, or humanoid in appearance. The disguise can lower height about two to three inches, or can raise height from four to five inches.

Now, the disguise ability isn't perfect, there is still a chance of being found out. the chance is 2% per day, (though it would be lowered for BG terms) with another 2% added if the Assassin is disguised as the opposite sex, or another race. (with a max of 8% chance) The chance of spotting the assassin goes downward by 1% for every point of combined INT. and WIS. of the surrounding creatures under 24. The reverse is also true, in that points above 24 will raise the chance of the assassin being spotted.

The percentage of thieving skills is okay, and I don't mind the way BG II interpreted it. but I would have rathered, instead of being a kit, it was a seperate class, such as the mage and sorcerer.

I think that these abilities could have easily been put in the game, and wish that Bioware had actually looked at AD&D rules instead of guessing.

So now that you have read my long winded rant, feel free to respond [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 06-04-2005, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: Kyrvias ]

[mad=dog]

You will have to add a source next time. Where have you collected the information about the Assasin kit? I presume The Complete Thief's Handbook, which is the official 2ed. AD&D sourcebook for Thief kits, but I'd just like it confirmed.

[Kyrvias]

Actually it was the "Official Advanced Dungeons&Dragons Players Handbook"

I didn't know about hte Thiefs handbook though, I need to buy that...

[mad=dog]

Look at the title page inside the book. It has revision information. You need to locate the editorial revision of the AD&D you have between you hands. Baldurs Gate (I+TotSC+II+ToB) follow the 2nd edition rules and there is not even a footnote in the players handbook about assasins. Trust me. You must hold either the very rare and old 1st edition (I have never seen it myself) or the recent 3rd edition rules. Neither can applied to BG/2ed rules.
In 2ed rules kits are described in separate bound booklets for each superclass. I just looked up assasins in 2ed rules (I have the aforementioned book so I looked it up just in case) and I can tell you they are overpowered compared to the core rules where they only get additional powers with poisons.

[Kyrvias]

On the cover, it says, "This is the first of the series of the world famous AD&D role-Playing Aids.

With that I would presume its 1st edition.

I guess my whole assassin argument is a moot point...

[ 06-04-2005, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: Kyrvias ]

[mad=dog]

I don't know if it is a moot point... Do you consider assasins underpowered? I don't personally. In fact the x7 backstab will ensure a kill on more than the suggested 50%. In my terminology a class is "nerfed" if it has been downgraded to a level where it is inferior to other comparable characters. Fighters have been nerfed as they don't get the same benefits from their extended access to weapon proficiencies. Who would you play a "plain" fighter then? You can play a ranger or paladin with no real drawbacks and a heap of benefits == the balance is ruined == fighters are nerfed. Then there are kits. They are NOT a giftshop. They are NOT intended to create more powerful characters. Otherwise game balance goes the way of the dodo. A kit has drawbacks and benefits and they must balance eachother out.
Another good example of nerfed classes are wizards and especially bards regarding spell tables. I refer to my own thread on the matter named "Bard alterations/rebalance" or somesuch. However there are other underlying reasons why the game fails regarding this and the weapon proficiency downgrade. Both due to the game being far too generous.
1) The game is too generous with XP. I see absolutely no point in the 8000000 ceiling when characters don't progress for the last 2000000 anyhow. It is an XP giftshop. Plain and simple. I'd rather have balance and less XP is you ask me.
2) The game is far too generous with equipment. True in SoA and rediculous in ToB. This makes it impractical to implement true proficiencies. Fighters would simply go through the roof. However without them everyone else is a bit too good at hand-to-hand stealing some of the fighters thunder. Again I'd prefer to cope with +2 weapons and actually get something for the dedication it takes to place 5 marks in a single weapon.

I don't know, but this game just reminds me of those DMs that try so hard to please the players and wind up with a bored group.

If you really have 1st edition rules you are lucky. They are hard to find. Did you get it on EBay or from some relatives who stopped playing? I think it went out of print in '86 or '87.

[Kyrvias]

To another point, I think that it should have been a seperate class, (ie: the wizard and sorcerer) and as per AD&D rules, the assassin has theiving skills equal to two levels below their current level. (ie: a 3rd level thief would have 1st level theivery abilities, a 4th would have 2nd level abilities.)

and to the XP giftshop, your totally right. throughout the last amounts of XP, your character doesn't really improve, they just stagnate. there is no point growing to level 40 if you don't improve.

lastly, about the book, I got it at a used book store. Ironically enough, it isn't really used. It is in very good condition, and is not written in or anything.

[ 06-04-2005, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Kyrvias ]

[Desuma Malevois]

Originally posted by Kyrvias: To another point, I think that it should have been a seperate class, (ie: the wizard and sorcerer) and as per AD&D rules, the assassin has theiving skills equal to two levels below their current level. (ie: a 3rd level thief would have 1st level theivery abilities, a 4th would have 2nd level abilities.) and to the XP giftshop, your totally right. throughout the last amounts of XP, your character doesn't really improve, they just stagnate. there is no point growing to level 40 if you don't improve. lastly, about the book, I got it at a used book store. Ironically enough, it isn't really used. It is in very good condition, and is not written in or anything.

From the sound of it, you definitely have the old 1st edition AD&D rules. If there's a bit in there about the assassin only going up to around 14th or 15th level then this is a definite.

You can see sample covers of these rulesbooks at

http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/SetPages/PHB.html

There were perhaps 11 printings in all from 1978 to 1987.

[Kyrvias]

yeah, 15th level and over is the Grandfather of Assassins. thats when the titles stop. and the cover matches with one of them on the link.

[Desuma Malevois]

OK. I stopped collecting AD&D after they put out the 2nd edition, so my familiarity with those rules are mainly through the BG series, but I do know that there were major changes made in the different rules sets, so you're right - you were operating under a false assumption. You still have a nice set of rules [img]smile.gif[/img]