Economy

[Chewbacca]

Ah yeah, I love that pic!

Good thing we have elections. When people get fed up with "no compromise" they may just act like constituents and say "work together you morans." That's a populist movement I can get behind.

Both sides ought to be inflexible to some degree otherwise they wouldn't have to try to compromise, it'd just be done.

I imagine It's boring effort and hard work. I'd find it challenging to feel strongly about a policy, but to give up it for another. Not to mention dealing with lots of big egos.

Nobody storms out or makes a finger pointing press conferences when a meeting ends with a compromise even if some options were not on the table. Boring.

Meanwhile I agree what we have now is a drama and a spectacle for the upcoming election. Who is putting on more of a show and why? The devil is in the details I'm sure.

[Azred]

I have always liked that picture because it sums up so much emotion in a simple gesture.

I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Cash thought that was the best picture of him ever taken.

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca Ah yeah, I love that pic! Good thing we have elections. When people get fed up with "no compromise" they may just act like constituents and say "work together you morans." That's a populist movement I can get behind. Both sides ought to be inflexible to some degree otherwise they wouldn't have to try to compromise, it'd just be done. I imagine It's boring effort and hard work. I'd find it challenging to feel strongly about a policy, but to give up it for another. Not to mention dealing with lots of big egos. Nobody storms out or makes a finger pointing press conferences when a meeting ends with a compromise even if some options were not on the table. Boring. Meanwhile I agree what we have now is a drama and a spectacle for the upcoming election. Who is putting on more of a show and why? The devil is in the details I'm sure.

I thought you would like that one.

Having the strength of one's convictions is admirable EXCEPT when you lose sight of the bigger picture. Don't these numnuts even LISTEN to what the country let alone their constituency is saying?

Frankly, I think there is more than enough posturing on both sides of the table to last us for decades.

[Memnoch]

The world is watching.

World reacts to U.S. debt crisis An editorial and op-ed round-up from the world's English language newspapers. SAUDI ARABIA—“[I]nternational markets are becoming increasingly nervous about the fate of the dollar, the world’s only reserve currency and in times past a haven for anxious investors,” says an editorial in the Jeddah-based Arab News. “Saudi Arabia is paid in dollars for its oil. Our currency is tied to the dollar. The Kingdom has approximately 2 trillion invested abroad, the greater part of it in the United States. The value of those investments, the value of our oil earnings and the value of our currency are all under threat as politicians in Washington grandstand for their constituents and argue bitterly from two utterly polarized positions.” AUSTRALIA—““Had Australia – or any other country – tried to build up debt on the U.S. scale, their currencies would immediately have been punished and their folly quickly exposed, ” says an editorial in the Sidney Morning Herald. "That has not happened to Washington. The arrival of what might, following Paul Keating, be called the United States' banana republic moment has been long delayed, and the delay will make the shock of it worse.” CANADA—“For the U.S. to begin defaulting on its obligations would be catastrophic, not just for Americans, but for all those who depend on U.S. stability and leadership,” says an editorial in the Toronto-based Globe and Mail. “The power the U.S. exercises on the world stage comes largely from its economic strength. Default would demonstrate the U.S.’s inability to meet its commitments. In addition to the economic consequences, that could lead to a loss of its moral authority in international affairs – and that would be a very bad thing.” UNITED ARAB EMIRATES—“While the U.S. is used to the spectacle of noisy squabbles in Congress, the current game of chicken at the heart of the world's leading economy is unsettling to say the least,” writes Alan Philips in the Abu Dhabi-based National. “In past years, the raising of the U.S. debt ceiling has been treated as a technical issue to be nodded through by Congress. But this year the ideological battles lines are drawn between those who demand cuts, and those who see borrowing yet more money as the only way. But there is another point of view which is gaining attention. This view holds that there is nothing exceptional going on here. Rather, the progress of liberal democracies from affluence to the brink of bankruptcy – and beyond – is normal, and indeed inevitable.” CHINA—“When countries across the world hold breath watching the debt negotiations between the Democrats and Republicans in Washington, they are once again ‘kidnapped’ by U.S. domestic politics,” writes Deng Yushan in China’s government-run Xinhua. “Given the United States' status as the world's largest economy and the issuer of the dominant international reserve currency, such political brinkmanship in Washington is dangerously irresponsible, for it risks, among other consequences, strangling the still fragile economic recovery of not only the United States but also the world as a whole.” http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn....is/?hpt=po_bn1

[robertthebard]

By all means gut Social Security, right after you cut checks to everybody that paid into the program for the balance of what they paid, and then stop that tax. There's a difference between cutting Welfare and cutting SS. That difference being, I paid into Social Security. A far better solution would be to take everyone off these programs that don't need it, or don't meet the legal standards to have it. If you're not a citizen, you don't need it, and aren't entitled to it. If you don't have a legitimate SS number, you're not entitled to medical care at an ER, you're not entitled to food stamps, or cash assistance. I wonder how many billions could be saved that way?

Of course, the concept of using money in the budget for what it was intended for would be a far more logical choice, which is why it doesn't show up in debate.

[Azred]

Social Security also would not be in such poor shape if the Federal Government had not been raiding it like the cookie jar in the middle of the night for so many years. Every time they needed an extra billion or two for some program they would borrow from SSI.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally Posted by Micah Foehammer It's not just the republicans. It's BOTH parties... Compromise? I don't see EITHER side doing a lot of that.

You're not the only one to express this sentiment, but I'm working off your quote. On this issue it's incorrect. Obama has bent over backwards to meet Republican ridiculous demands that somehow we balance all our deficit issues on the backs of the poor without taxing the rich or cutting profligate military spending. Every deal he's discussed with them for the past 2 months is one that would have been nabbed up in previous times and declared a clear Republican victory. He HAS compromised, more than I am happy with.

The article below is about the fact that despite this, somehow the viewpoint you state still persists. I don't know why. And I'll bet you dollars to donuts that as soon as a deal is announced all commentators will agree Republican got basically all they wanted and more. In any other era, we would recognize that Obama is actually a right-of-center policy maker, more Republican than some of the Republicans in Congress. But in the world of looney right wing hegemony that is today's DC politics, it's hidden. Anyway, I'll delay no more:

The Centrist Cop-Out By PAUL KRUGMAN The facts of the crisis over the debt ceiling aren’t complicated. Republicans have, in effect, taken America hostage, threatening to undermine the economy and disrupt the essential business of government unless they get policy concessions they would never have been able to enact through legislation. And Democrats — who would have been justified in rejecting this extortion altogether — have, in fact, gone a long way toward meeting those Republican demands. As I said, it’s not complicated. Yet many people in the news media apparently can’t bring themselves to acknowledge this simple reality. News reports portray the parties as equally intransigent; pundits fantasize about some kind of “centrist” uprising, as if the problem was too much partisanship on both sides. Some of us have long complained about the cult of “balance,” the insistence on portraying both parties as equally wrong and equally at fault on any issue, never mind the facts. I joked long ago that if one party declared that the earth was flat, the headlines would read “Views Differ on Shape of Planet.” But would that cult still rule in a situation as stark as the one we now face, in which one party is clearly engaged in blackmail and the other is dickering over the size of the ransom? The answer, it turns out, is yes. And this is no laughing matter: The cult of balance has played an important role in bringing us to the edge of disaster. For when reporting on political disputes always implies that both sides are to blame, there is no penalty for extremism. Voters won’t punish you for outrageous behavior if all they ever hear is that both sides are at fault. Let me give you an example of what I’m talking about. As you may know, President Obama initially tried to strike a “Grand Bargain” with Republicans over taxes and spending. To do so, he not only chose not to make an issue of G.O.P. extortion, he offered extraordinary concessions on Democratic priorities: an increase in the age of Medicare eligibility, sharp spending cuts and only small revenue increases. As The Times’s Nate Silver pointed out, Mr. Obama effectively staked out a position that was not only far to the right of the average voter’s preferences, it was if anything a bit to the right of the average Republican voter’s preferences. But Republicans rejected the deal. So what was the headline on an Associated Press analysis of that breakdown in negotiations? “Obama, Republicans Trapped by Inflexible Rhetoric.” A Democratic president who bends over backward to accommodate the other side — or, if you prefer, who leans so far to the right that he’s in danger of falling over — is treated as being just the same as his utterly intransigent opponents. Balance! Which brings me to those “centrist” fantasies. Many pundits view taking a position in the middle of the political spectrum as a virtue in itself. I don’t. Wisdom doesn’t necessarily reside in the middle of the road, and I want leaders who do the right thing, not the centrist thing. But for those who insist that the center is always the place to be, I have an important piece of information: We already have a centrist president. Indeed, Bruce Bartlett, who served as a policy analyst in the Reagan administration, argues that Mr. Obama is in practice a moderate conservative. Mr. Bartlett has a point. The president, as we’ve seen, was willing, even eager, to strike a budget deal that strongly favored conservative priorities. His health reform was very similar to the reform Mitt Romney installed in Massachusetts. Romneycare, in turn, closely followed the outlines of a plan originally proposed by the right-wing Heritage Foundation. And returning tax rates on high-income Americans to their level during the Roaring Nineties is hardly a socialist proposal. True, Republicans insist that Mr. Obama is a leftist seeking a government takeover of the economy, but they would, wouldn’t they? The facts, should anyone choose to report them, say otherwise. So what’s with the buzz about a centrist uprising? As I see it, it’s coming from people who recognize the dysfunctional nature of modern American politics, but refuse, for whatever reason, to acknowledge the one-sided role of Republican extremists in making our system dysfunctional. And it’s not hard to guess at their motivation. After all, pointing out the obvious truth gets you labeled as a shrill partisan, not just from the right, but from the ranks of self-proclaimed centrists. But making nebulous calls for centrism, like writing news reports that always place equal blame on both parties, is a big cop-out — a cop-out that only encourages more bad behavior. The problem with American politics right now is Republican extremism, and if you’re not willing to say that, you’re helping make that problem worse.

One last point: I don't recall who wrote it, but it is not true that Obama will bear all the blame if there is a government shut-down. I would welcome a government shut-down at this point above a deal that was too friendly to Republicans. The government shutdown Bill Clinton went through was where he found his first-term stones and started to become a decent president. And, most credit it with helping get him re-elected. The shut-down forced the first of four fiscal budget balancing years, and we could certainly use some of that now. Clinton hung on and vetoed a bad bill and sent government workers home rather than gut medicare, medicaid, education, and the environment. It showed he cared about those things. Obama has simply proven that for him those things are bits of currency to hand over to Republicans rather than force a difficult decision.

[Memnoch]

Michelle Bachmann is not happy about the deal.

Bachmann said: "The 'deal' ... spends too much and doesn't cut enough," Bachmann said in a statement released Sunday after President Barack Obama announced the agreement with congressional leaders. "This isn't the deal the American people 'preferred' either, Mr. President," Bachmann said in her response. "Someone has to say 'no.' I will." "Mr. President, I'm not sure what voice you're listening to, but I can assure you that the voice of the American people wasn't the voice that compelled Washington to act," she said in a statement after the president announced a deal with congressional leaders Sunday night. "It was you that got us into this mess, and it was you who wanted a $2.4 trillion blank check to get you through the election." http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/08/....html?iref=NS1

Does anyone have a copy of Bachmann's own plan? I'd like to compare it with this one.

[Azred]

Originally Posted by Timber Loftis I don't recall who wrote it, but it is not true that Obama will bear all the blame if there is a government shut-down.

That was me. My point with that was that the President always gets the blame whenever anything goes badly while they are in office.

Bachman doesn't have a plan. She just wants to get on the news saying how pathetic everyone else's plan is.

The politicians are, right now, too concerned with getting reelected to do what it takes to fix the budget problems; all they have done is delay the real showdown for a while.

[Memnoch]

Vlad is getting his kicks in.

US is a 'parasite' on world economy: Putin August 2, 2011 - 1:34AM Advertisement Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has accused the United States of acting as a "parasite" on the world economy by accumulating massive debts that threaten the global financial system. "The country is living in debt. It is not living within its means, shifting the weight of responsibility on other countries and in a way acting as a parasite," Putin told a group of pro-Kremlin youth in central Russia on Monday. Putin has repeatedly criticised the United States' recent foreign exchange policy and its propensity to cover budget deficits with treasury bills and bonds held by sovereign clients such as China and Russia. The value of that paper will shrink if US debt is downgraded by a major Western ratings agency and Putin was insistent Monday that the world should be seeking new reserve currencies for trade and savings. "If the US encounters a systemic malfunction, this affects everyone," Putin told the Seliger camp gathering. "There should be other reserve currencies." Putin added that the debt agreement announced by Obama "was not that great overall because it simply delayed the adoption of a more systemic solution." This story was found at: http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news...802-1i8md.html