Power Party {Spoilers Should Happen Here}

[True_Moose]

As some of you longtime board veterans may remember, I once had an idea to put together the most powerful, 6-man party I could - no mods. The original thread: http://tinyurl.com/qtm8b I am currently writing an FAQ centred around this party, which will include reasons for the characters, some basic tactics, and weapon progression, because you need to have weapons before ToB too. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Now, here are some changes, along with why, and weapons:

Fighter/Mage => Fighter/Mage/Thief
Why? Because this character takes care of two handed weapons. As such, with the Thief, he can gain UAI and use Carsomyr, as well as backstab with the SotR. This means his main weapon setup will be along the lines of:
Ravager (hordes of little things), Carsomyr (boss & mage), and a ranged weapon. I'm torn between Firetooth (the X-Bow) and Darkfire. I really don't know which I want to use.

Blade
Debating whether to move the Purifier into one of his hands. I can think of several set ups.

1. Axe of Unyielding - Foebane / Scarlet Ninja-To
2. Axe of Unyielding - Purifier / Scarlet Ninja - To
3. Axe of Unyielding - Foebane / Purifier
4. Foebane - Purifier / Axe of Unyielding

The last one (Foebane with Axe of Unyielding) seems really scary, and yet, that extra attack with the Ninja-To can come in handy. I simply can't choose.

Ranger/Cleric
Storm Star, Runehammer dual wielded with Crom Faeyr. Pretty standard.

Sorceror
Staff of the Magi + Sling of Everard. 'nuff said.

Fighter/Thief
Briefly contemplated making him a second F/M/T, but I think that having any more than 2 scroll based casters hurts spell selection (better to have 2 casters with tons of good spells, than 3 with a few each.)

Originally had him dual-wielding Celestial Fury and Dagger of the Star with Angurvadal. Wondering whether Blackrazor may be a better backstab weapon, but I really like the stun on the CF. Also have the Equalizer kicking around for its immunities.

Mage/Cleric => Fighter/Mage/Cleric
This combination just seems like a better fit. This way, all those buffs actually mean something. Also, I can get warrior HLAs but more importantly, I can dual-wield. What this means is that I can have Defender of Easthaven in my off-hand, which, combined with Armor of Faith and Hardiness can really soar my physical resistance. I also believe the DoE is superior to any shield.

That means Flail of the Ages and Club of Detonation (good for clearing areas and killing henchmen), dualwielded with the DoE.

Opinions on my changes? Questions, comments, all are welcome.

[SixOfSpades]

My "perfect party" build seems pretty much identical, except I have a Fighter/Mage where you have a Blade, and a Fighter/Illusionist in place of your Sorceror. More tomorrow.

[el_kalkylus]

True_Moose,
I've also been fiddling around with a few power parties. In your party, you have 4 characters that can cast mage spells, and two that can cast cleric spells. Personally I think that is too much because it takes such a long time to decide which spells they will use and buff etc.

I have one quite succesful party that I enjoy:

1) Kensai(13)/Mage - Dualwields Celestial fury and Black razor.
2) Kensai(9)/Mage - Throws knife and cast spells.
3) Dwarf Kensai - Throws hammer.
4) Half-orc Fighter/Thief - Mostly uses a shortbow.
5) Half-elf Ranger/Cleric - Shield and Flail of ages and a sling. She tanks throughout SoA and uses range in ToB.
6) Any npc that I want. Keldorn most of the times since the Inquisitor is such a great mage killer and can use Carsomyr. My Fighter/thief can also use Carsomyr, but I let him use staff of magi vs mages instead to dispel their protective spells.

You may think it is risky to let my main character be in the middle of the battle, but so far he hasn't died. The bonuses that the main character gets is pretty great. He can also run around and cast vampire touch to increase his hp or Tenser's Transformation. When facing dragons, usually I just buff my main character, run in a few times, and let the dragon beat on him. Then I let the rest of the party kill it with ranged attacks. Buffing is easy. Only main character and ranger/cleric gets protective spells in the really tough fights, while the rest stay out of the way. Of course there are a few exceptions though when I want my fighter/thief to do a little backstabbing.

So I run through the game really fast, and I am very pleased of the result. I will give spectral brand to my main character, once he is specialized in waikashi, to prevent life draining. ToB tower is almost complete now and a few big missions in ToB as well.

[ 02-26-2006, 04:11 AM: Message edited by: el_kalkylus ]

[True_Moose]

This is all in the theoretical stages at this particular point in time. I'm trying to focus in on the exact roles of the characters as much as anything. There sort of needs to be a balance between the uber-powerful solo characters and the needs of a party. Right now I'm running through Tactics and Ascension with

Berserker(13)->Druid
Ranger/Cleric
Cavalier
Skald
Sorceror
Swashbuckler/Mage

and it's going along pretty smoothly. What I think I'm really interested in is overwhelming power as well as versatility. These guys can play by any rules, on any day, and come out with their armour brighter than before type of thing. I understand your point about the arcane spells, an alternative would be to switch in either another priest (maybe a Shapeshifter->Fighter or something) or a tank (Swashbuckler->Fighter, Kensai->Thief, Barbarian, whatever.) The other thing I wonder about is scrolls. Since I'm talking vanilla BG2, there aren't scrolls popping up just everywhere (I found a TimeStop in Prebek's house in my latest run!) That's why each character with arcane spellcasting is able to do something besides arcane spells - except the sorceror, but that's kind of unavoidable.

EDIT: Question on Blackrazor (I've never used it.) Would it be more valuable in the main hand or the off-hand? Personally, I see the level drain combined with effects as being really powerful as a primary weapon, while it's off-hand benefits are limited, especially compared to some of the other weapons in the game.

[ 02-26-2006, 04:58 AM: Message edited by: True_Moose ]

[Andraste]

I'd still put my money on a party of six sorcerers for SOA, and six mage/clerics if you're going through to TOB.

[ 02-26-2006, 06:22 AM: Message edited by: Andraste ]

[el_kalkylus]

You will find many high level scrolls in ToB tower and underdark. As you know, you can buy good scrolls after underdark in Waukeens promenade. After that, you'll have to wait until chapter 9 where you can buy virtually all scrolls from a merchant.

I use blackrazor in the off-hand, because my main character hardly gets hurt anyway, and the stun effect is better than level drain. Also, my main character has a natural 22 strength, so strength bonus from blackrazor is not that important. The immunity from charm and especially fear is a big bonus as well.

One note. Since you will let most of your character dualwield, you risk of running into traps and become more vulnerable to attacks because the monsters aren't half dead or dead once they reach your party.

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by True_Moose: (I found a TimeStop in Prebek's house in my latest run!)

That....sounds very odd. In all of my experience, 9th-level scrolls simply do not appear as random drops (with the sole exception of Spell Trap), so I'd say that that must have been added by a mod--just not any mod that I'm familiar with.


Okay, I promised some info on my "perfect party": What I like best about this teamup is that everybody gets lots of Warrior HLAs in ToB, the spell-power is distributed throughout almost the entire party, they use a very wide range of weaponry, and it's solid in the roleplay aspect: All of their stats are natural rolls, all the Mages have at least 14 INT, nobody has pathetic scores in the common "dump stats" of WIS or CHA, and their weapon proficiencies (and Thieving skills) stay exactly the same (or as close as possible) in the transition from BG1 to BG2.


DORA SANDHEAVER: TN F Halfling Fighter/Thief (Locks, Stealth)
14/19/18/12/9/10
BG1: Full Plate/Hide. Dagger of Venom, Staff Mace?
BG2: Full Plate/Hide. Daggers, Clubs, Darts.

ORMAND FEIVAN: LG M Half-Elf Ranger/Cleric
17/17/18/14/17/12
BG1: Full Plate. Warhammer+2, Sling+1.
BG2: Full Plate. Warhammers, Slings, Dual-Wielding, Flails.

VARLEN MODAI: CG M Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist
16/18/16/14/12/12
BG1: Archmagi. L.C.o.Speed, Halberd+2.
BG2: Vecna. Crossbows, Halberds, 2-Handed Weapons.

AETHEC RIEREN: CN M Elven Fighter/Thief/Mage (Traps, Stealth, Pockets)
15/17/16/16/12/12
BG1: Enchanted Plates, Shadow Armor. Spider's Bane, Eagle Bow.
BG2: Shadow Armor, E.Archmagi. Short Bows, Two-Handed Swords, Two-Handed Weapons.

FELLAIA KENAI: NG F Elven Fighter/Mage
12/17/16/15/12/12
BG1: Full Plate/Bracers AC 6. Longbow of Marksmanship, Varscona.
BG2: G.Archmagi. Long Bows, Long Swords, Axes.

KIERETH ENCOMIAL: LN F Half-Elf Fighter/Cleric/Mage
130)/17/16/16/16/10
BG1: Plate, Archmagi. Sling+1, Staff+3.
BG2: Full Plate, N.Archmagi. Slings, Staves, Two-Handed Weapons, Maces.

[ 02-28-2006, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

[True_Moose]

I could hardly believe it when it happened. I get to Spellhold and teach level 12 Imoen the uber-spell. It hasn't happened again (the best I've got from there has been Summon Fiend.)

I suppose there are two major questions I have about your party, which looks very powerful.

1) I am not a XP division freak who gets frightened at the thought of multiclasses or a full 6 man crew. But do you ever find problems with the lack of (relatively) high level spellcasting. For example, to get Breach (this is a low level example), a multiclass will have to wait for 250k more XP. Because there are no single classes in the party, it takes that much longer for the party (individual casters don't really matter) to get Breach. Is that a problem?

2) Any problems with spell scrolls? By my count you have four casters, are there enough scrolls out there to be able to make all of them at minimum competent casters? That's why I like the idea of a sorceror, to take off some of the "scroll stress" as it were. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Link]

Man, Six. Either you have a very disturbing imagination when it comes to names, or you picked to most obscure name-generator online! Ormand Feivan?

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by True_Moose: 1) But do you ever find problems with the lack of (relatively) high level spellcasting. ... Because there are no single classes in the party, it takes that much longer for the party (individual casters don't really matter) to get Breach. Is that a problem?

Yes and no. For the most part, anything that can be done with spells can also be done with brute force, which we've got plenty of. Until we get access to Breach on a regular basis, we'll pretty much be relying on Dora's Saving Throws as a damage-soaker, and Insect Plague as a replacement for Breach. The only spells that I really hate waiting for are Death Fog and Creeping Doom (both for Liches), ADHW, and of course Time Stop. But I think we'll get along ok, what with 6 Warriors carving the bad guys up.

2) Any problems with spell scrolls?

Nope. There are buttloads of scrolls in the game, and even more if I designate 2 of my Mages (Varlen and Fellaia) as the primaries, and the other 2 just scrape up ther leavings. This party is still in BG1, and they haven't even attempted to scribe a single scroll yet: At Character Creation, they all picked MM and Identify, along with Friends for Varlen, and man, all those Identifies sure come in useful. Haven't memorized a single MM yet, though. They're about to get Level 3 spells, though, so I'll buy them Robes soon, as Fireball and Haste are too important to pass up.

Originally posted by Link: Either you have a very disturbing imagination when it comes to names, or you picked to most obscure name-generator online!

I sit at my computer long enough to natural roll 6 sets of kickass stats, and you wonder at my naming imagination? [img]tongue.gif[/img]