Please, people who know much about the English language..

[Bungleau]

Originally posted by uss: Hmm, drew_jarvie, are you sure that 'To watch in amazement to march them into the mist' isn't correct English at all? It does seem very incorrect to me, but she speaks as if she's 100% sure that it is correct. Curious.

That is not a sentence, but a sentence fragment. IF you break it down...

"To watch" -- an infinitive serving as a noun
"in amazement" -- a prepositional phrase modifying "To watch"
"to march" -- another infinitive, also being used as a noun, but with no verb to link it or to do any action.
"them" -- a pronoun of some sort, probably an objective pronoun; it's the object, or recipient, of "to march"'s action.
"into the mist" -- another prepositional phrase, this one modifying "to march"

Now, if there were a comma in here...

'To watch in amazement, to march them into the mist'

it could be correct (at least as far as fragments go). It would become two separate things in a list, and that could fit in. It still wouldn't be a complete sentence, but it wouldn't be deserving of execution.

[uss]

Woah, I be gettin' some mighty long answers!

Originally posted by Bungleau: Uss, First thing I'll note is that these seem to be mostly sentence fragments, and not full sentences. The full sentence can often give you more information about what's being discussed.

Oh yes, that's right. The 'a' and 'the' dilemma would be solved if we had full sentences!

quote: So here I am. This is crazy! I always get 3's on my English word tests, but 5's(A's) on my English Unit Tests. I'd really like to know which one of us is the idiot. She has been an English teacher for more than 10 years, but what she thinks seems so.. incorrect. My stupidity or her senility?

Senility? I'd hate to think that sets in during one's mid-30s, where I anticipate this teacher is. Stupidity? I think not, since you're in class to learn. I suspect it's different perspectives... [/QUOTE]Eh, to be honest, I'm sure she's not in her mid thirties. She's more like twice that age and then some extra. Whatever age she is, and however much she has teached, I said 'More than 10 years' which means '10-to-unlimited years.'

[quote]

[qb] But across the board, there are no right or wrong answers, based on what you've indicated here. There are only shades of meaning and interpretation. If there's additional material that clarifies the question, you may have to toss out everything I've written.

We have Units in the book, which contain certain stories or such, in which the expressions are used. All of her expressions(the ones that I "should have" written) are obviously the same as the ones in the book. But still, there are no real rules that force me to write the expressions exactly as written in the book. Or if there was, it would only be fair to clear the contexts out!

"To watch them march into the mist in amazement" says that those doing the marching are the ones in amazement. "To watch them in amazement as they march into the mist" says that the watcher is in amazement. I'd probably write "In amazement, I watch them march into the mist". Any one can be correct, depending on the context of the sentence, which isn't given here.

The angering part is that I would have also written "In amazement, I watch them march into the mist," BUT there is some ludicrous thing that people can only write *exactly* as it was initially written by the teacher(on the revision paper). So we *have* to use 'one's' instead of 'my' or 'your' and such. A very wrong way to teach, in my opinion!

Regarding the "carve a face in a mountain" -- your teacher is correct that it is written correctly, unless you have a particular mountain in mind, that is. However, your teacher cites an "exception" to the rule. This is made up. It's BS. There aren't really "exceptions" to the rule, there are only differing applications of the rule to a particular situation. This is what those of us who have been teachers call "backpedalling" or "making stuff up" -- we do that when a bright student corners us.

Heh, I know what you mean. I don't know what she meant by 'There are exceptions,' but as far as I know, she's the one creating them!

Salvation 'To watch in amazement, to march them into the mist'

There was no comma in the 'right' expression we were given. Another flaw, albeit a small one, perhaps.

Also, in my sentence 'To watch them to march into the mist in amazement,' she said: "How could this sentence be correct? There isn't even a 'To' in front of 'march!'" To my knowledge, there's no damn point to make it be 'To watch them to march into the mist in amazement' so she was incorrect with that. She has teached so many years.. yet she still says 'Write as less as possibe' and makes other stupid flaws. Seeing as I've gotten all sorts of English teachers who don't really know all that much about English(or know practically anything, in some peoples' case), the situation's passed the point where it becomes depressing. I tend to be the only one who asks the teacher if she's truly correct, since others in my group can't speak English all that well, and they aren't enough sure if what they think is true, so they don't ask questions.

I apologize for any incorrect sentences or any such that I have made in this post. Writing a post for 2 hours isn't good for the head.

The bottom line is that a truly good teacher wouldn't make silly restrictions that really have nothing to do with knowledge of the language. A good one would check if the expression is correct at all, rather than checking how similar it was to the expression that was written in the book.

Honestly, I think I'm not deserving of such a grade, since well, you guys know I understand English, right?


Thanks for posting and goodbye, everybody! I'm glad my post is finally finished. Now, as a more-or-less reward, I'll go watch Anime with my brother.

[Bungleau]

Enjoy that anime. If it makes you feel any better, one of my old French professor's favorite pasttimes was editing the textbooks he was using to teach class. If you got his copy, you'd see red exclamation points wherever he found an error.

I won't say he ran out of red ink, but no red pen ever dried up from not being used [img]smile.gif[/img]

Sometimes you just acknowledge and move on. Sounds like this is one of them.

[Lord]

If I was your English teacher, I'd give you a 4 on this. If I were you and I really wanted to plead my case, I'd print this whole thread out and show it what real English is like

[uss]

Originally posted by Bungleau: Enjoy that anime. If it makes you feel any better, one of my old French professor's favorite pasttimes was editing the textbooks he was using to teach class. If you got his copy, you'd see red exclamation points wherever he found an error. I won't say he ran out of red ink, but no red pen ever dried up from not being used [img]smile.gif[/img]

Heh, that sounds like a good teacher. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Bungleau: Sometimes you just acknowledge and move on. Sounds like this is one of them.

You're right, I guess. I still get A's from the unit tests, which are exactly 3 times more important than word tests by the Estonian grade system, so I'm ok.

[uss]

Originally posted by Lord: If I was your English teacher, I'd give you a 4 on this. If I were you and I really wanted to plead my case, I'd print this whole thread out and show it what real English is like

I'm not quite sure if you'd do that - I had many other flaws as well.

Oh well, I think it's time to show the whole test.. just cause I have too much free time.

I'll write it like this: (my written sentence) - (correct one).


1. To notice the enormous statue of Christ. - To notice the huge statue of Christ.

2. To be remembered as a national hero. - To remember as a national hero. (this one is slightly unfair, as the Estonian words meant both.)

3. To find a witty explenation for something. - To find a reasonable explenation for something.

4. To provide some information about background. - To provide some background information.

5. To complete sentences with the adjectives in the brackets. - To complete the sentences with the adjective in the brackets.

6. To cause an accident to the cars. - To cause damage to the cars.

7. To make one's story more interesting by using adjectives. - Correct!

8. To be only for pedestrians. - To be for the pedestrians only.

9. To throw something into the recycle bin. - To throw something straight into the recycle bin.

10. To wear a hook instead of the right arm. - To have a hook instead of a right arm.

11. To be angry about a jump. - To be angry about the jump.

12. To make adjectives negative by using .. - To make adjectives negative by using the prefix.

13. To go to a doctor because of one's headaches. - To see a doctor because of one's headaches.

14. To offer a ride to single pedestrians. - To offer a lift to a lonely pedestrian.

15. To be extremely generous with one's money. - Correct!

16. The origin of it's name and location. - The location and the origin of it's name.

17. To see a wallet/purse lying on the pavement. - To see a purse lying on the pavement.

18. To journey through country roads. - To make journeys along country roads.

19. To search for a good bargain. - To hunt around to find a good bargain.

20. To carve a giant sculpture into a mountain. - Correct!

21. To use ... - To use hyphen and inverted commas.

22. To add a comma into the right place. - To add a comma in the correct place.

23. To see a group of soldiers to one's surprise. - To one's astonishment to see a troop of soldiers.

24. To use given and one's own words. - To use prompts and the words of your own.

25. To disappear into a wayside inn. - To disappear into the wayside inn.

26. To watch them march into the mist in amazement. -To watch in amazement to march them into the mist.

27. To hint to both stories. - To refer to both stories.

28. To experience something strange/peciluar/weird. - To experience something strange.

29. To work on a memorial. - To start work on the memorial.

30. To come from under desks. - To come from underneath the floorboards.

31. To happen to a local person/inhabitant. - To happen to a local resident.

I admit that some of them were stupid mistakes on my part, and some others were misunderstandings because some expressions in Estonian weren't clear enough. It amazes me that out of 31 questions, only 3 were seen as they're completely correct! For better results I'll check the revision paper beforehand next time.

[Arledrian]

I think the bottom line is that she's taking answers from the book but too literally; she doesn't realize that what you're saying is correct 90% of the time too, since you can juggle things about so much in the English language. So crikey, even the education system is corrupt over there. Move out of that damn country while you can, son. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[uss]

Originally posted by Arledrian: So crikey, even the education system is corrupt over there. Move out of that damn country while you can, son. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Misinformation is a bitch. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Bungleau]

First off, not a one of those is a sentence. So from a basic grammar perspective, you both fail completely.

Second, it sounds like she's going for literal translation. IMHO, as someone who speaks five languages to differing degrees of skill, literal translation is not applicable to daily conversation and communication. Idea translation is. What's that? It's getting the idea across. Kids do it all the time, because they don't know the words.

Years ago, I had to translate English to French during a factory tour. I couldn't think of the word for "drill" in French, so I called it "the machine that makes holes". Literally correct? No. Idea communicated? Yes. And later on, someone told me the word I'd missed.

And my anger at my uni Spanish professor who marked me completely wrong on a quiz because I translated "attractive" as "attractiva" instead of "hermosa" -- completely wrong because I mis-spelled "atractiva" by doubling the "t" -- has nothing to do with it, honest!

I mean, I've forgotten all about the Dragon Lady...

[TheCrimsomBlade]

She is teaching proper English which is spoken in England. I never could figure out proper english Because I'm am American and I speak and write american slang which to all teachers is considered improper. To me what they teach is improper because we threw the English out of our country 223 years ago. Since then english has been distorted by american youth to the point that most of us get a head ache when we read proper english. I now have a Head Ache and Hope your teacher gets hit by a truck! WAH!!!!!
Here is the funny or sad part I got a "D" in english everytime I ever took it and an "A+" in Math and calculas all through Hugh School you figure it out?
I had a Math teacher tell me one time that I was one of the smartes and quickest Math students he had ever met and yet I spelled 20% of everything I wrote incorrectly and That I had written the longest run on sentence he had ever seen in his 35 years of teaching. He said I may build the first space ship to make it to the stars but let someone else write the instruction book.

[ 04-21-2004, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: TheCrimsomBlade ]