09-09-2008, 11:50 AM | #191 | |
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 52
Posts: 9,246
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Re: Remember that Dutch comic about Mohamad?
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The problem with capitalism, is some must go without to maintain low supply and high demand, (Iran are calling for Opec to CUT Oil production, would you believe) so I'm pretty sure this falls into human choice. Especially since in a world without borders, we could all just migrate away from a local famine. But who made the borders? Humans. I think that the misery that befalls humans is terribly upsetting to God, but it's the tough choice he made in allowing free will. Every parent must go through it when they let their kid have more freedom. "Oh but they'll get hurt" yes they will, but that's part of freedom. And free will is the only way to have love. Love can only exist if the potential for rejection exists. It has to be a choice, not a programmed obligation. |
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09-09-2008, 11:57 AM | #192 | |
Harper
Join Date: March 21, 2001
Location: Lancs, England
Age: 39
Posts: 4,729
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Re: Remember that Dutch comic about Mohamad?
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Yorick, that sounded so stereotypically American to me, you just wouldn't believe... hehe
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09-09-2008, 12:09 PM | #193 | |
Registered Member
Iron Throne Cult
Join Date: August 27, 2004
Location: North Carolina
Age: 61
Posts: 4,888
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Re: Remember that Dutch comic about Mohamad?
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I do attribute it to the Christian God for two reasons. One, obviously, is my faith in God. Second, I learned several days later that several hundred people were praying on my behalf while I was in surgery, asking God to spare and heal me. My ex-wife's aunt is Catholic. She was burning a prayer candle and offering Hail Mary's on my behalf. When the surgeon told my mom and ex-wife the news, they broke down (as you might imagine). My mom asked everyone in the OR Waiting Room to prayer with her for God to spare me and a roomful of complete strangers joined hands and prayed to God on my behalf. My ex-wife went out in the parking lot and literally fell to her knees, while crying out for God to spare my life. God's Word tells us He listens when His followers call out to Him. So, yes, I believe God answered those hundreds of prayers being offered at once on my behalf.
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09-09-2008, 12:12 PM | #194 | ||
Registered Member
Iron Throne Cult
Join Date: August 27, 2004
Location: North Carolina
Age: 61
Posts: 4,888
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Re: Remember that Dutch comic about Mohamad?
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What do you have faith in if you believe most all gods are myths? To whom or what do you attribute the miracles you have witnessed?
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Cerek the Calmth Last edited by Cerek; 09-09-2008 at 12:15 PM. |
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09-09-2008, 12:27 PM | #195 | |
Jack Burton
Join Date: July 19, 2003
Location: an expat living in France
Age: 38
Posts: 5,577
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Re: Remember that Dutch comic about Mohamad?
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(While I drop an apple and it doesn't fall upwards, I'll believe in gravity though. )
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09-09-2008, 12:33 PM | #196 | ||||||
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 52
Posts: 9,246
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Re: Remember that Dutch comic about Mohamad?
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Let's look at precedents: People in ancient Sumer have a set of organised religious beliefs. Out of that, Abraham stumbles onto a new and radical revelation of God, ("yo, all the characters in your theology are purely fictitious") and lo' monotheism is (re)born. Christianity itself is a radical change in the Jewish faith. God appears in human form, saying "I love you". 2 billion Christians currently follow a Jewish messiah, 14 million Jews do not. People DO change their beliefs when new information is presented to them. If tomorrow, irrefutable, inarguable evidence was presented the Jesus was not who he said he was, then, I'm certain, many who seek truth, would adjust accordingly, while a minority would not. The fact is, when you look at the evidence there IS a strong case for Jesus being God. No of course it's not irrefutable or proven beyond doubt to us, because that's where faith comes in. There NEEDS to be room for doubt, for faith to exist. But, for those of us who believe, we have more faith in our beliefs than our doubts. We believe because it seems true! Quote:
What Cloverfield confirms is that there was a New York City, a Statue of liberty, and that the Statue of Liberty was an important symbol to the people. No other source confirms an attack by an alien on the date alleged in the film, and unless New York IS destroyed, archaeology would refute it's historicity. The fact is the bible is not ONE book, but 66 works, written over a 2000 odd year history. The works reference each other and are supported by archaeology. Also, historical narrative in fiction, is a literary device invented much closer to modern times. No other ancient fiction was written in this style. Either it's a huge leap in writing development, or it reflects the style of writing of it's contemporaries - nonfiction. Additionally, the books of mosaic law served as the LAW of the Jewish people. It's like arguing that the U.S. constitution is fiction. It's obviously not. Why would anyone invent the U.S. constitution? It's not like they were selling books back then. There are POEMS and SONGS in the bible as well, that convey their own truth, just as say a Bob Dylan song may contain truth. Here's some more: http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html Quote:
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This is what I was saying at the start of this thread, that only by taking the bible OUT OF CONTEXT can people support extreme hate, or weird cutlish beliefs, or allege inconsistencies. The bible has to be read as a whole, or with an understanding of context! Yes, there are MYSTERIES, but mysteries become apparent with new knowledge. The Chords of Orion unraveling was a mystery to ancient writers, that is now apparent due to technology. Quote:
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09-09-2008, 12:36 PM | #197 |
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 52
Posts: 9,246
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Re: Remember that Dutch comic about Mohamad?
And yet I'm an Aussie married to a Brit.
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09-09-2008, 01:00 PM | #198 | |||
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 52
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Re: Remember that Dutch comic about Mohamad?
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But then preachers are human. I have stories about my experiences with preachers that... well they'd take days to tell. I have definitely been through the fire more than once, but I tell you, I follow God, and not the man, and the more failures I see in preachers, the more I'm reminded that God uses IMPERFECT people to spread his word, and that includes you and I. Secondly Christianity is a relationship, not an test paper. We all have strengths, and we all have weaknesses in various areas. I don't know the guy, but hopefully he was a really good and caring pastor to those people who were IN his church, even if he didn't have a heart for those outside it. Lastly, when i do get shocked by stories such as this, I have to be careful I don't judge them too much, for I'm sure I have turned people completely off the God I love by my many failures. I'm sorry you had to experience that. Here's what the bible says about the homeless: James 1:27 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. Leviticus 25 35 " 'If one of your countrymen becomes poor and is unable to support himself among you, help him as you would an alien or a temporary resident, so he can continue to live among you. 36 Do not take interest of any kind from him, but fear your God, so that your countryman may continue to live among you. 37 You must not lend him money at interest or sell him food at a profit. 38 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan and to be your God. Leviticus 23 22 " 'When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.' " Deuteronomy 15 7 If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. 8 Rather be openhanded and freely lend him whatever he needs. 9 Be careful not to harbor this wicked thought: "The seventh year, the year for canceling debts, is near," so that you do not show ill will toward your needy brother and give him nothing. He may then appeal to the LORD against you, and you will be found guilty of sin. 10 Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to. 11 There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land. Job 29 11 Whoever heard me spoke well of me, and those who saw me commended me, 12 because I rescued the poor who cried for help, and the fatherless who had none to assist him. 13 The man who was dying blessed me; I made the widow's heart sing. Psalm 35:10 My whole being will exclaim, "Who is like you, O LORD ? You rescue the poor from those too strong for them, the poor and needy from those who rob them." Luke 12:33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. and finally: James 2 My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism. Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet," have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong? If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right. |
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09-09-2008, 01:20 PM | #199 | |||
Vampire
Join Date: January 29, 2003
Location: Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 3,888
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Re: Remember that Dutch comic about Mohamad?
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People do make seemingly miracelous recoveries every now and then, but there is no appearant way to determine what causes this; is it natural or divine intervention? Physicians are not infallible, the go by experience and statistics. If miracles exist, they strike randomly, without rhyme or reason. For every one person who survive miracelously, there is a hundred stories of those that didn't.
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09-09-2008, 01:42 PM | #200 |
Jack Burton
Join Date: May 16, 2003
Location: Dartmouth, NS Canada
Age: 58
Posts: 5,634
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Re: Remember that Dutch comic about Mohamad?
Ahh, the book of James. Definitely up there in my favs. I encourage everyone to read it. It's short, and he doesn't mess around. He has a way of telling it straight out.
1 Thessalonians is another great and short book. Paul sets the right example here. It can be used as a model for so many things today. He taught them about Christ, but never took their money (although he could have). He worked making tents to sustain himself.
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