char selection problem Sorcerer/mage/cleric

[Saverico]

I played meele types so far. Now i want to try a spellcasting type. I like the idea of cleric. Has some offensive power with right domains(air,magic). With these domains has some usefull spells like stoneskin and call lightning. Arcane spellcasters has a familiar pixie that can take care of traps and are equiped with really powerfull spells. However all of those three need to rest. Okey i played with meele types and i rested often. Have no problem with that. I got into second chapter so i know what will await me in lower levels which are critical in the youths of every spellcaster. I assume that everyone of these classes need micromanagment but okey. So the question is. What is the best spellcasting type for a newbie in casting?

[Legolas]

The sorcerer class would definately be the hardest to use effectively, because you can only learn a limited amount of spells. That means you need to understand how all the spells work in relation to one another and in different situations, or you'll be wasting potential.

Between the cleric and the wizard, the cleric would be the most forgiving. It lacks some of the raw damage wizard spells can dish out, but in return you get a very versatile class. Spells like Find Traps and (if you take the right domain) Knock, are all you need to replace a rogue or pixie familiar. The trickery domain offers invisibility spells if you're interested in that kind of thing, which can further maximise your efficiency in that field. Especially at higher levels, or with the aid of the Magic and Air domains, you have access to magic capable of dealing damage or killing outright. Healing spells are a bonus, and so are the reverses such as Harm. Undead will hate the cleric no matter what.
More importantly perhaps, as opposed to the other two classes, the cleric is not bad as a fighter. In fact, with the right spells he can temporarily become a better warrior than any pure fighter of the same level. You can also cast those spells in armor.
Finally, you do not need to limit yourself to just a few spells, and you do not need to hunt for scrolls. You know every spell in the book from the onset.
It's hard to go wrong with this one.

The wizard and sorcerer, however, do have more killing power in terms of magic. Theirs is the pure spellcasting class, and if you're interested in abandoning weapons entirely those are the classes you should try out. And as I said at the start, the wizard would be the better choice for a beginner here.

[Saverico]

Thanks for advice Legolas.
I liked the idea of cleric a lot so no problem with him.

But what stats? What should i orient on? I would prefer more of a spellcasting type so stats like

Str 12 to be able to carry something

Dex 12 heavy armor allows only +1

Con 14 1d8+2 +toughness nice!

Int 10 maxing only concentration+persuade, giving some points into spellcraft(10) for the +2 to will saves

Wis 16 most important stat but i think the cost to elevate it during char building takes too much from your starting pool and i know that with wisdom16 i can cast max lvl6 spells but there are necklases and other things to elevate it +every 4levels...

Cha 12 not sure about importancy of this stat but i heard about having some effect on turn undead ability(is it so important?)

Well i would distribute them something like that.

However domains are a big question. From what i read i would take magic and air. However maybe switch one of them for the domain that has knock and find traps? Dont know yet.

But i would want to stand back during a battle. Even with so much hp(for a spellcaster) i hate attacks of opportunity during spellcasting.

[Stratos]

Your stats look good and balanced.

As for attacks of opportunity, just stand back and let summons or a henchman pound the enemies while you cast spells. Also, attacks of opportunity just means that they get a free attack, but they'll still have to hit you to cause damage and a Cleric can get a very high AC.

An interresting alternative to the Cleric is the Druid. The Druid have less combat buffs than the Cleric and is overall less melee oriented, but have more offensive magic at his disposal. If you're into more of a spellcaster type than a melee type, and you don't want to play an arcane spellcaster, a Druid is a good alternative to consider.

[ 07-27-2004, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: Stratos ]

[Legolas]

Just as you need a base ability score to take certain feats (ambidexterity - 15 dex, improved knockdown - 13 int, etc.), it's your base ability score which determines whether you can cast spells of a certain level. If you don't increase your WIS to a base of 19 over the course of the game, you'll never be able to access 9th level spells for example.
Of course, a starting WIS of 15 or 16 is still enough to allow you that by the time you need it.

Charisma is useful for your undead turning, but also affects the duration of some domain-bound abilities. 12 or 14 is fine, you can increase this further with spells and items if you need to.

Intelligence is a requirement for certain feats, if you intend to take those you'll need to raise it to 13 or 14. Otherwise it all depends on how many skillpoints you want.

You won't need a lot of Dex. 8 is enough if you use the Animal or War domain, otherwise stick with 12.

Strength is where you pile your spare points. You have magic bags and the (empowered) Bull's Strength spells, as well as items to up that sufficiently.

Constitution is more of a priority than strength, still, it's not of vital importance.


The top domains (unless you're specialising) are Air (damage spells), Animal (Cat's Grace, an early Truesight, stronger summons), Magic (again, offensive power), Trickery (for the invisibility) and War (for the stat boosts and stat boosting spells). Strength may be worth it in some cases too.
In addition, anything allowing Stoneskin or Energy Buffer is welcome.

Find Traps is a standard spell all clerics get, so you would have trouble solely with locks.

As to attacks of oppertunity... most encounters go something along the lines of
-spot enemy
-cast protective spells
-turn corner
-cast offensive spell
-cast offensive spell
-chop up the rest

You'll generally be doing very little casting in combat, as opposed to mages or sorcerers. It'll primarily be improved invisibility, greater sanctuary, harm or heal. The first two effectively stop the combat, letting you cast protective spells and healing magic without worry for more attacks of oppertunity. The third means the combat is soon over, and the fourth, well, it's no different from drinking a potion of Heal. In fact, the potion is probably safer and leaves you with more spell slots.

[pritchke]

Yah, I would agree with what has already been said.

I found the cleric to be very melee oriented due to the buff spells. The cleric to me is basically the perfect balance of a melee, spell casting character that is prepared for any situation. If you want to get away from melee the cleric is not a good choice. But it is a good choice as a starter to move from melee tactics to spell oriented tactics as you will probaly be using a combination. I always found buffing, weakening my enimies with spells, or summons, and then charging headlong into battle to work qute well for the cleric.

[ 07-27-2004, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[Albromor]

The cleric is an awesome choice for NWN. They can wear the best armor, can utilize powerful weapons, and have spells that are not only defensive in nature but have a number that are offensive also. With the right combinations of buff spells, potions, belts and rings they are even deadly in melee. For my domains I chose Heal and Sun. The undead absolutely hate the latter!

[ScottG]

My take on this is similar, but somewhat different.

first: consider what class level you will be for a given character level. At 9+ levels a wizard or sorcerer can be a real powerhouse offensivly, but below that they can be V E R Y weak. So ask yourself how much time and how difficult that time will be spent at those early levels. Clerics and Druids are more balanced throughout their leveling. IF you want to go the route of a wizard or sorcerer in a long and difficult campaign during levels below 9, then consider dual (or even tri) classing. In particular consider any of the 10 hit dice classes for a few levels, OR (my favorite) the Monk. If you decide to go this route I'd suggest anywhere from 2-5 levels. Also consider their requirements and the use of equipment (while spell casting).

second: read the spells for each class

http://www.gamebanshee.com/neverwint...zardspells.php

For offensive spells:
in particular look for spells with no saves and no spell resistance. Also look to see how the damage scales with levels. Finally, look to see how the damage occurs (direct like an arrow or and area effect spell like a fireball).

Now look at the other spells:

generally defensive and summoning, but also counter offensive and enhancement spells. Note what spells can be substituted via potions and scrolls. Typically the latter two (counter offensive and enhancement) are easily aquired via scrolls and potions. You will find that it is fairly rare that you will ever need a dispel spell, and a little less rare that you will need a purge invisibility spell (or true sight). Because of this rarity it makes a LOT more sense to simply use scrolls for those infrequent times. The same is true of something like bull's strength, why use a spell to acomplish what a potion will? The only reason is availability, either in price or quantity, or spell duration (and I don't think I've ever had a problem with either).

What I'm trying to suggest here is that there are NOT that many spells you will use, and those spells that are used on an infrequent basis can be acomplished by other means.

If you just want to play with different types of spells then I would suggest either the wizard or the cleric - BOTH have a huge list available. Strangely though, this can be disadvantageous to a beginner. It can often become a matter of "which spell do I use?".

If you will take the time to plan out your spell allocations you will be FAR better served by a sorcerer over a wizard.

Additionally if you decide to go the route of melee combat - seriously consider the Druid. Though the Druid doesn't have more enhancing spells - it does have better, (MUCH better), protection spells via Greater Stoneskin and Premonition.

If your considering an archer based spell caster then seriously consider the Cleric with the Zen Archery feat (a devistating combination -particularly with summons for meatshields).

If you want to go a more purist route and really see what a sorcerer or wizard is capable of then I would suggest the Sorcerer Monk (my fav.). (and with this character you can still play with spells simply by using scrolls.) 2 levels of Monk are all that required.

[Saverico]

Sheesh! Each one has a different answer. But it cant be helped i guess. Each one of you has a different opinion. OK. I wanted previously a sorcerer but he was a litle bit fragile. I started a one but i used the tactic ,,go with a club snd kill that goblin". Dont have to say it was useless. I read topics where players said that clerics are the best spellcaster types in NVN. Actually it doesnt matter anymore. Yesterday i started a cleric, just arrived at lvl 6. He is fun to play. I took Air and Magic domain for the additional spells. Call lightning is good. Searing light rocks. MelfsAcAr is pretty powerfull as well. I can heal even undeads. That aspect is coll. You heal an undead and he takes dmg. Holy power hehe. Nice. I wanted to be a purist spellcasting cleric and i think he will be viable even later in the game. But i think that if i enjoy to play a certain character its the most important thing in a game. If he has problems with a certain boss its good. Brings more roleplaying into game.
Oncemore thanks for your replays guys.

[ScottG]

"But i think that if i enjoy to play a certain character its the most important thing in a game."

By FAR the most important..

and hey, you can always finish that game and try it with a different character..

don't forget other modules that are available online. In some cases they are not only better - but FAR better than the original campaign. (Shadowlord and Dreamcatcher come to mind.)