Obama's latest jobs/opening campaign/scream foul to the media - speech

[Azred]

I concur. There are so many factors to feed into the equilibrium point of an economy. Make a move on one factor and the system shifts to a different equilibrium point; trying to undo the previous move probably won't get you back to the previous equilbrium point, either.

[Cerek]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior Yeah they been doing that for years now. Small countries house the headquarters of some of America's largest corporations and businesses.

Can you list some examples? The name of the corporation(s) and which countries house their HQ?

[Lord of Alcohol]

Originally Posted by Cerek Can you list some examples? The name of the corporation(s) and which countries house their HQ?

Bermuda. Stanley Tools. A lot of companies put a small office there and call it home.

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally Posted by Cerek Can you list some examples? The name of the corporation(s) and which countries house their HQ?

Halliburton - UAE
Accenture, Foster-Wheeler, Ingersoll-Rand Co. Ltd, Tyco International Ltd, Cooper Industries Inc., Nabors Industries Ltd - Bermuda
Noble Drilling Services Inc., Seagate Technology LLC -Cayman Islands
Newmont, Cargill, ADM - Ghana
Transocean and Weatherford - Switerzerland

It's not just about the corporate HQ locations either:

Cisco and Intel have major manufacturing arms in Ireland,

Almost all of the major pharmaceutical companies including Pfizer, Wyeth, GlaxoSmithKline, Bristol- Myers Squibb, Novartis, Schering-Plough, and Merck operate out of Ireland. Currently thirteen of the top fifteen companies in the world have substantial operations in Ireland. Six out of ten and twelve out of 25 of the world's top selling drugs are produced in Ireland including Lipitor and Zocor.

Google, Pfizer, Lilly, Oracle, Facebook and Microsoft have managed to reduce their tax rates by hundreds of millions — and in some cases, billions — of dollars by taking advantage of offshore tax havens

The trick for pharmaceutical companies is to move their patents overseas. That way they pay corporate tax rates from the foreign country and not the ludicrous 35% corporate rate in the US. Moving manufacturing arms accomplishes the same thing. Ireland's corporate tax rate is 12.5%; the lowest in the EU.

http://www.merrionstreet.ie/wp-conte...Investment.pdf

There is even a shift away from Ireland to take advantage of lower tax rates in Puerto Rico. Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, Merck and IVAX from the US and Warner Chilcott (Ireland), Clariant (Switzerland), AstraZeneca (UK), and GlaxoSmithKline (UK) all have operations in PR which has a corporate income tax rate of 7% - 2%.

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Cerek Can you list some examples? The name of the corporation(s) and which countries house their HQ?

Ireland and UK are big ones. But alas this is yet another topic that was discussed a few month ago here, thus the assumption that people knew already.

[Cerek]

Originally Posted by Micah Foehammer Halliburton - UAE Accenture, Foster-Wheeler, Ingersoll-Rand Co. Ltd, Tyco International Ltd, Cooper Industries Inc., Nabors Industries Ltd - Bermuda Noble Drilling Services Inc., Seagate Technology LLC -Cayman Islands Newmont, Cargill, ADM - Ghana Transocean and Weatherford - Switerzerland It's not just about the corporate HQ locations either: Cisco and Intel have major manufacturing arms in Ireland, Almost all of the major pharmaceutical companies including Pfizer, Wyeth, GlaxoSmithKline, Bristol- Myers Squibb, Novartis, Schering-Plough, and Merck operate out of Ireland. Currently thirteen of the top fifteen companies in the world have substantial operations in Ireland. Six out of ten and twelve out of 25 of the world's top selling drugs are produced in Ireland including Lipitor and Zocor. Google, Pfizer, Lilly, Oracle, Facebook and Microsoft have managed to reduce their tax rates by hundreds of millions — and in some cases, billions — of dollars by taking advantage of offshore tax havens The trick for pharmaceutical companies is to move their patents overseas. That way they pay corporate tax rates from the foreign country and not the ludicrous 35% corporate rate in the US. Moving manufacturing arms accomplishes the same thing. Ireland's corporate tax rate is 12.5%; the lowest in the EU. http://www.merrionstreet.ie/wp-conte...Investment.pdf There is even a shift away from Ireland to take advantage of lower tax rates in Puerto Rico. Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, Merck and IVAX from the US and Warner Chilcott (Ireland), Clariant (Switzerland), AstraZeneca (UK), and GlaxoSmithKline (UK) all have operations in PR which has a corporate income tax rate of 7% - 2%.

I found several of these as well, especially the ones located in Bermuda and Cayman Islands. It makes sense that Haliburton would put their HQ in UAE, since that is where the bulk of the world's oil comes from.

Accenture claims they were never an American company to begin with, since they were incorporated in Bermuda, but the parent company was American.

What I noticed with most of these examples is that the move to foreign countries had very little to do with healthcare costs or benefits and a LOT to do with lower corporate or patent taxes. Bermuda, for example, is home to HQ for many American companies, but they don't have a national healthcare plan. I still agree Gov. Granholms' statement is a strong argument for ObamaCare, but when you look at corporations that have moved overseas, the overwhelming reason cited is for lower taxes. Lower healthcare costs may also be another factor corporations consider, but certainly doesn't appear to be one of the primary factors.

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally Posted by Cerek What I noticed with most of these examples is that the move to foreign countries had very little to do with healthcare costs or benefits and a LOT to do with lower corporate or patent taxes. Bermuda, for example, is home to HQ for many American companies, but they don't have a national healthcare plan. I still agree Gov. Granholms' statement is a strong argument for ObamaCare, but when you look at corporations that have moved overseas, the overwhelming reason cited is for lower taxes. Lower healthcare costs may also be another factor corporations consider, but certainly doesn't appear to be one of the primary factors.

Interesting numbers on labor cost comparisons around the World.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/ichcc.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/bu...y/03rates.html

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior Ireland and UK are big ones.

Ireland - YES
UK - not so much (26% is middle of the road for EU countries but far higher than Ireland's 12.5% or the 0% rate in Bermuda and the Caymans)

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-...rates_2011.pdf

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Micah Foehammer Interesting numbers on labor cost comparisons around the World. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/ichcc.pdf http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/bu...y/03rates.html Ireland - YES UK - not so much (26% is middle of the road for EU countries but far higher than Ireland's 12.5% or the 0% rate in Bermuda and the Caymans) http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-...rates_2011.pdf

Ireland is bigger than the UK, but the UK is still somewhat lucrative. Because of it's close proximity to Ireland. Distance factor only. I thought your research above supported that.

Actually, Ireland recently made it a bit more costly for these corporations to settle in their country, and there was uproar and debate about it on the media. Still, they hiked the costs a small fraction in comparison to their home country.

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Cerek What I noticed with most of these examples is that the move to foreign countries had very little to do with healthcare costs or benefits and a LOT to do with lower corporate or patent taxes. Bermuda, for example, is home to HQ for many American companies, but they don't have a national healthcare plan. I still agree Gov. Granholms' statement is a strong argument for ObamaCare, but when you look at corporations that have moved overseas, the overwhelming reason cited is for lower taxes. Lower healthcare costs may also be another factor corporations consider, but certainly doesn't appear to be one of the primary factors.

This is exactly right. Long before healthcare was an issue, American companies were settling around the corner from me in Ireland, for example. It contributed to an economy boom there.

Healthcare is just another bonus that someobody later observed. But of course the biggest factor is lower taxes to settle your business.

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior Ireland is bigger than the UK, but the UK is still somewhat lucrative. Because of it's close proximity to Ireland. Distance factor only. I thought your research above supported that.

I'm not sure how proximity matters given such a large disparity in the corporate tax rates.

Given the choice of 12.5% versus 26% the slightly lower labor costs in the UK wouldn't seem to be that much of a driver for a US corporation or EU companies for that matter to preferentially locate in the UK versus Ireland or (Switzerland for that matter).

Actually, Ireland recently made it a bit more costly for these corporations to settle in their country, and there was uproar and debate about it on the media. Still, they hiked the costs a small fraction in comparison to their home country.

I don't follow this closely. Do you have some details on what sort of changes were made? I do know that the government of Ireland refused to consider raising the corporate tax rate despite the furor.