Would the Axis have won WW2 if Hitler had not ticked off Stalin?

[Sythe]

What'd you think?

[Iron Greasel]

I don't know history well enough to answer that. That said, I can't quite understand why I'm posting this.

[Svaerdhelgon]

I think it would be more interesting to think what would have happened if Britain hadn´t declared war on Germany after the invasion of Poland.

Hitler´s main target was always the east,he had nothing against other "aryan" countries

[Dalamar Stormcrow]

A better question: Would WW2 ever have happened if the French tried to liberate the Rhineland from Nazi invasion?

[Azred]

No. Although Hitler's National Socialists did turn Germany around from being a beaten and broken nation after the Treaty of Versailles they had no long-term goals in place that would have established a lasting societal structure. After some flash-in-the-pan victories the Reich would have collapsed in on itself in less than 10 years.

[mad=dog]

In my opinion the Germans forfeited any chance of winning the war by not going forward with Operation Zeelöwe after concluding the French campaign. At that time the Royal Navy was weaker than ever after Norwegian setbacks and the Dunkerque evacutation. Furthermore the RN was built and set for blue water combat and not channel patrols. A mere handful of destroyers were in Southampton. The British were rattled. The BEF was still in shambles. I am not saying that an invasion would have been a guaranteed success, but it was certainly a better shot than going against the Russians with the Brits undefeated. However Göring promised that he could bomb Britain to submission without a shred of evidence that such a plan was feasible.
The Germans made numerous mistakes, but the most important is that they went to war prematurely. People often have a vision of Germany being fully prepared for war at 1939, but that is hardly the case. In fact the projected year for war was in the mid 1940'es where the Luftwaffe, Panzer and most importantly the Kriegsmarine would have been fully equiped. The Germans was not in war industry at all even though they started the war. They were still producing volkswagens rather than tanks all the way up to and including 1941. If the Germans had produced the same quantities of tanks and mechanized personel carriers in 1939-1941 as they did in the later years of the war (where they were beginning to suffer from RAF/USAAF bomber attacks) they may have stood a better chance. Meaning they would not have lost quite so fast.
The reason why the Germans penetrated so fast and so deep into Russia during the initial stage of Barbarossa was that the Russian forces were preparing to attack themselves. This is not mere speculation, but backed by evidence*. The date for invasion was 10th of July - just two and a half week after the German attack commenced on June 22nd. So bear no illusions - a German-Soviet war was inevitable.
One of the most fundamental principles of war is that a military operation must identify and maintain one and only one objective. Barbarossa did have such a goal, but the supreme command (mainly Hitler who along with Göring had the skills of a battalion commander) failed to maintain it. The operations in Russia shifted back and forward without maintaining a drive. Suddenly the advance on Moscow is halted to shift army corps down to Ukraine for some encirclement (that failed because the Fallschrimjägers had been burned off at a redundant operation in Crete). Blatant mistakes in a campaign were time was of the essence.
Another crucial error on the German side was a lack of priority to Military Intelligence.

* V. Sukorov, RUSI Journal, June 1985. Second hand quote.

[Kakero]

No, Germany's fate is already sealed with the direct involvement of USA. If I was Hitler I would be cursing the japanese for bombing Pearl Habour. Why awake a sleeping giant?

[ 06-29-2005, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: Kakero ]

[mad=dog]

Actually Germany declared war on the US and not vice versa.

[Gabrielles blades]

Definatly foolish to start a war on two fronts - the concentration of troops on the front lines would have been far more powerful if they were on only one front at a time.

If they had sent the jewish population to the front lines instead of slaughtering them - this would make them look less evil to the rest of the world and still kill them off.

The resources needed to maintain the war could easily have been gotten from the various countries they conquered - they just needed to take it one step at a time rather than all at once.

They would have probably avoided US involvement by not attacking US transports of goods and tourists.

[Kakero]

Originally posted by mad=dog: Actually Germany declared war on the US and not vice versa.

Germany declared war to USA after the bombing of Pearl Habour and after USA declared war to Germany's Axis partner Japan. If the bombing didn't occur. Would Germany have declared war to USA?

[ 06-29-2005, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: Kakero ]