Todays Genders in Society - Page 6

Epona · 01-30-2002, 01:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:

Epona claim that if you like, but I havebeen reading and rereading..you have/we have NOT just been talking about hunting v foraging. that was one issue.

Au contraire, I have been talking about nothing but hunting/foraging the whole way through. You have been talking about a whole load of other stuff which I never even mentioned - find one instance where I did, because there isn't one.

01-30-2002, 01:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Epona:

Honey, you are no more threatening than a puppy trying to break its way out of a wet paper bag.
I respond to DragonMage differently because I know her better, and have a great deal of respect for her. That's the difference.

Does this mean you will obfuscate and poke and prod at me because you have no respect for me and don't know me?

This thread and our posts were not about the singular issue you now claim that it was. The debate is over I guess and as for me being threatening I wasnt refering to me in specific but to dominant type males in general, I have watched your other posts and in general I think you are a nice person but it appears to me that you really do not like men who have a strong opinon that disagrees with yours. Nothing wrong with it..just an observation.

I will bow out after making sure to respond to anybody that Ive missed so far. I cede the field to you

DragonMage · 01-30-2002, 01:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
Just out of curiosity...when the Alpha Male and Alpha female of the pack disagree who wins?

The Alpha Female of course.

If the Alpha Male knows what's good for him and doesn't want to sleep on a cold rock instead of in the nice warm den. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

And thanks, Epona!

I've got some 'homework' for the weekend. [img]smile.gif[/img]

01-30-2002, 01:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DragonMage:

The Alpha Female of course. If the Alpha Male knows what's good for him and doesn't want to sleep on a cold rock instead of in the nice warm den. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

And thanks, Epona! I've got some 'homework' for the weekend. [img]smile.gif[/img]

hehe only if he is a henpecked alfa-male

course you know..he could always grab one of the younger females and lope off and start a new pack [img]smile.gif[/img]

ooo that makes me think of another not so nice thing about genders and societies...and another reason why females were dominated by males in pre-history...obviously no medical care, birthing and nurturing the children was a full time job, no day care, no nannys...things happened the way they happened becasue the world was/is a savage place. Survival of the species is what drove us to be the way we were I think...maybe not..ahh well nice to see you online DM [img]smile.gif[/img]

Epona · 01-30-2002, 01:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:

Does this mean you will obfuscate and poke and prod at me because you have no respect for me and don't know me?

I haven't done any of those things - I have been polite and courteous throughout. If you think that I was poking and prodding, well then I'm sorry if I have upset you. It was not my intention, please be assured.

I do think that it is a little peevish to 'cede the field' claiming that I have hurt your feelings and been rude, when all I have been doing is putting up as good an argument as yourself, which I thought you would enjoy - obviously some people don't appreciate a debate, so my apologies.

I am more than happy to agree to differ on the subject, it is the thrill of the debate that counts, not the outcome.

Garnet FalconDance · 01-30-2002, 01:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:

ooo that makes me think of another not so nice thing about genders and societies...and another reason why females were dominated by males in pre-history...obviously no medical care, birthing and nurturing the children was a full time job, no day care, no nannys...things happened the way they happened becasue the world was/is a savage place. Survival of the species is what drove us to be the way we were I think...maybe not..ahh well nice to see you online DM [img]smile.gif[/img]

You may have been only teasing, but in actuality it *is* the alpha male in a canine pack who submits in the end to the alpha bitch.

FINALLY, you get to the whole point--it is the survival of the species et al. which has led to most of this damned stereotyping rather than an inate superiority/inferiority between the sexes. Now then, this has obviously led to a differentiation of behaviour....which when added to other societal factors has led to the commonly held beliefs of what comprises 'masculine' and 'feminine'. Geesh. Took you long enough! [img]smile.gif[/img]

And yes, we probably respond to each other differently, but I agree that it has more to do with how well we know a person outside the debate than by how we perceive them as obtuse male or sympathetic female (sorry, couldn't help myself). I haven't seen any bra-burning fems or any testosterone-laden brutes posting flamelets......so we must be okay.

Larry_OHF · 01-30-2002, 02:06 PM

I have not taken the time to read much of this thread, but if anybody cares to know...I love shopping, even if I do not have the money to buy anything, and can take hours to decide on a shirt...I do 90% of the house cleaning...I do 50% of the cooking, and my cooking abilities is better than my wife's(she admits, sourly), and the baby is on good behavior only for me.
Karen is cut and dry simple shopping(does not like to take long), and her ability to understand the mortgage, and fill out the taxes surpasses me.
So, we are kind of against the stereotypical lifestyles of man and woman. I could give more examples, but I am at work...

DragonMage · 01-30-2002, 02:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Garnet FalconDance:
You may have been only teasing, but in actuality it *is* the alpha male in a canine pack who submits in the end to the alpha bitch.

Damn! You beat me to it!

Actually, yes...not only does the female (typically), among predators at least, decide who will mate with her, but also whether or not that male will continue to do so.

As to day care, MagiK...This just occured to me...I'm sure that this had to have happened even in the hunter/gatherer phase of human development as well. Again, using a predator analogy like wolves/lions/hyenas...the alphas and other hierarchy in the clan go off to hunt while the minor males and lesser females stay 'home' and watch 'the kids'. So too, I'll bet, did the hunter/gatherers and foragers in their time. The fittest (male AND female probably) go to look for food while the elderly or young stayed home to tend the younger children. Perhaps? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Sir Kenyth · 01-30-2002, 03:13 PM

Aggressiveness and physical strength have been the prime requisetes of a successful animal for eons. It's silly to think that just because we've been civilized for several hundred years that it would all change at once. Male and female behavior is somewhat "bred in the bone". Yes, we can easily learn to act differently from what our muted instincts tell us. That doesn't mean that the sympathetic reactions from our unconscious minds don't exist. Don't you ever wonder why young women SAY they want NICE guys and then CHASE AFTER exciting bad boys? They seem to shun non-confrotational personalities in favor of ones who like a little heated arguement, who get into fist fights once in a while, who like competition and winning everything? Why, even though these same guys act like jerks quite often? It's because their behavior matches what women are instinctually programmed to see as strong genes. They get that excited feeling around stong, agressive, good-looking guys. As they get older and have some experience to draw upon, their opinions may change. Young women primarily go by gut feeling (instinct) to determine what gets their juices flowing.

01-30-2002, 05:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DragonMage:

Damn! You beat me to it!

Actually, yes...not only does the female (typically), among predators at least, decide who will mate with her, but also whether or not that male will continue to do so.

As to day care, MagiK...This just occured to me...I'm sure that this had to have happened even in the hunter/gatherer phase of human development as well. Again, using a predator analogy like wolves/lions/hyenas...the alphas and other hierarchy in the clan go off to hunt while the minor males and lesser females stay 'home' and watch 'the kids'. So too, I'll bet, did the hunter/gatherers and foragers in their time. The fittest (male AND female probably) go to look for food while the elderly or young stayed home to tend the younger children. Perhaps? [img]smile.gif[/img]

When I talked of daycare I had totaly forgotten the wolfpack part of the discussion...I was contemplating just how dificult survival was and how far we have come from those days.

01-30-2002, 01:11 PM	#51
Epona Zartan Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: London, England Age: 53 Posts: 5,164	quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Epona claim that if you like, but I havebeen reading and rereading..you have/we have NOT just been talking about hunting v foraging. that was one issue. Au contraire, I have been talking about nothing but hunting/foraging the whole way through. You have been talking about a whole load of other stuff which I never even mentioned - find one instance where I did, because there isn't one. __________________ [img]\"http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/epona.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

01-30-2002, 01:15 PM	#52
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by Epona: Honey, you are no more threatening than a puppy trying to break its way out of a wet paper bag. I respond to DragonMage differently because I know her better, and have a great deal of respect for her. That's the difference. Does this mean you will obfuscate and poke and prod at me because you have no respect for me and don't know me? This thread and our posts were not about the singular issue you now claim that it was. The debate is over I guess and as for me being threatening I wasnt refering to me in specific but to dominant type males in general, I have watched your other posts and in general I think you are a nice person but it appears to me that you really do not like men who have a strong opinon that disagrees with yours. Nothing wrong with it..just an observation. I will bow out after making sure to respond to anybody that Ive missed so far. I cede the field to you

01-30-2002, 01:15 PM	#53
DragonMage 20th Level Warrior Join Date: September 6, 2001 Location: The lighter side of life, a.k.a. Newnan, Georgia Age: 55 Posts: 2,767	quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Just out of curiosity...when the Alpha Male and Alpha female of the pack disagree who wins? The Alpha Female of course. If the Alpha Male knows what's good for him and doesn't want to sleep on a cold rock instead of in the nice warm den. [img]tongue.gif[/img] And thanks, Epona! I've got some 'homework' for the weekend. [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ [img]\"http://home.earthlink.net/~moraine_sedai/_uimages/dragonmage.gif\" alt=\" - \" /> [img]\"ubb/noncgi/smiles/hero2.gif\" alt=\" - \" /> <br />Alureth...Dragon friend of Lady Breanna<br /><br />Co-Owner/Operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan.<br />Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force<br />Mother Hen of IW and Mage extraordinaire.<br /><br />Utterly in love with my soul mate, Hiram.

01-30-2002, 01:21 PM	#54
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by DragonMage: The Alpha Female of course. If the Alpha Male knows what's good for him and doesn't want to sleep on a cold rock instead of in the nice warm den. [img]tongue.gif[/img] And thanks, Epona! I've got some 'homework' for the weekend. [img]smile.gif[/img] hehe only if he is a henpecked alfa-male course you know..he could always grab one of the younger females and lope off and start a new pack [img]smile.gif[/img] ooo that makes me think of another not so nice thing about genders and societies...and another reason why females were dominated by males in pre-history...obviously no medical care, birthing and nurturing the children was a full time job, no day care, no nannys...things happened the way they happened becasue the world was/is a savage place. Survival of the species is what drove us to be the way we were I think...maybe not..ahh well nice to see you online DM [img]smile.gif[/img]

01-30-2002, 01:21 PM	#55
Epona Zartan Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: London, England Age: 53 Posts: 5,164	quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Does this mean you will obfuscate and poke and prod at me because you have no respect for me and don't know me? I haven't done any of those things - I have been polite and courteous throughout. If you think that I was poking and prodding, well then I'm sorry if I have upset you. It was not my intention, please be assured. I do think that it is a little peevish to 'cede the field' claiming that I have hurt your feelings and been rude, when all I have been doing is putting up as good an argument as yourself, which I thought you would enjoy - obviously some people don't appreciate a debate, so my apologies. I am more than happy to agree to differ on the subject, it is the thrill of the debate that counts, not the outcome. __________________ [img]\"http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/epona.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

01-30-2002, 01:55 PM	#56
Garnet FalconDance Mephistopheles Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: deep within the sylvan splendor.... Age: 60 Posts: 1,443	quote: Originally posted by MagiK: ooo that makes me think of another not so nice thing about genders and societies...and another reason why females were dominated by males in pre-history...obviously no medical care, birthing and nurturing the children was a full time job, no day care, no nannys...things happened the way they happened becasue the world was/is a savage place. Survival of the species is what drove us to be the way we were I think...maybe not..ahh well nice to see you online DM [img]smile.gif[/img] You may have been only teasing, but in actuality it is the alpha male in a canine pack who submits in the end to the alpha bitch. FINALLY, you get to the whole point--it is the survival of the species et al. which has led to most of this damned stereotyping rather than an inate superiority/inferiority between the sexes. Now then, this has obviously led to a differentiation of behaviour....which when added to other societal factors has led to the commonly held beliefs of what comprises 'masculine' and 'feminine'. Geesh. Took you long enough! [img]smile.gif[/img] And yes, we probably respond to each other differently, but I agree that it has more to do with how well we know a person outside the debate than by how we perceive them as obtuse male or sympathetic female (sorry, couldn't help myself). I haven't seen any bra-burning fems or any testosterone-laden brutes posting flamelets......so we must be okay.

01-30-2002, 02:06 PM	#57
Larry_OHF Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Midlands, South Carolina Age: 48 Posts: 14,759	I have not taken the time to read much of this thread, but if anybody cares to know...I love shopping, even if I do not have the money to buy anything, and can take hours to decide on a shirt...I do 90% of the house cleaning...I do 50% of the cooking, and my cooking abilities is better than my wife's(she admits, sourly), and the baby is on good behavior only for me. Karen is cut and dry simple shopping(does not like to take long), and her ability to understand the mortgage, and fill out the taxes surpasses me. So, we are kind of against the stereotypical lifestyles of man and woman. I could give more examples, but I am at work... __________________

01-30-2002, 02:30 PM	#58
DragonMage 20th Level Warrior Join Date: September 6, 2001 Location: The lighter side of life, a.k.a. Newnan, Georgia Age: 55 Posts: 2,767	quote: Originally posted by Garnet FalconDance: *You may have been only teasing, but in actuality it is* the alpha male in a canine pack who submits in the end to the alpha bitch.** Damn! You beat me to it! Actually, yes...not only does the female (typically), among predators at least, decide who will mate with her, but also whether or not that male will continue to do so. As to day care, MagiK...This just occured to me...I'm sure that this had to have happened even in the hunter/gatherer phase of human development as well. Again, using a predator analogy like wolves/lions/hyenas...the alphas and other hierarchy in the clan go off to hunt while the minor males and lesser females stay 'home' and watch 'the kids'. So too, I'll bet, did the hunter/gatherers and foragers in their time. The fittest (male AND female probably) go to look for food while the elderly or young stayed home to tend the younger children. Perhaps? [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ [img]\"http://home.earthlink.net/~moraine_sedai/_uimages/dragonmage.gif\" alt=\" - \" /> [img]\"ubb/noncgi/smiles/hero2.gif\" alt=\" - \" /> <br />Alureth...Dragon friend of Lady Breanna<br /><br />Co-Owner/Operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan.<br />Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force<br />Mother Hen of IW and Mage extraordinaire.<br /><br />Utterly in love with my soul mate, Hiram.

01-30-2002, 03:13 PM	#59
Sir Kenyth Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: somewhere Age: 54 Posts: 1,785	Aggressiveness and physical strength have been the prime requisetes of a successful animal for eons. It's silly to think that just because we've been civilized for several hundred years that it would all change at once. Male and female behavior is somewhat "bred in the bone". Yes, we can easily learn to act differently from what our muted instincts tell us. That doesn't mean that the sympathetic reactions from our unconscious minds don't exist. Don't you ever wonder why young women SAY they want NICE guys and then CHASE AFTER exciting bad boys? They seem to shun non-confrotational personalities in favor of ones who like a little heated arguement, who get into fist fights once in a while, who like competition and winning everything? Why, even though these same guys act like jerks quite often? It's because their behavior matches what women are instinctually programmed to see as strong genes. They get that excited feeling around stong, agressive, good-looking guys. As they get older and have some experience to draw upon, their opinions may change. Young women primarily go by gut feeling (instinct) to determine what gets their juices flowing. __________________ Master Barbsman and wielder of the razor wit!<br /><br />There are dark angels among us. They present themselves in shining raiment but there is, in their hearts, the blackness of the abyss.

01-30-2002, 05:05 PM	#60
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by DragonMage: Damn! You beat me to it! Actually, yes...not only does the female (typically), among predators at least, decide who will mate with her, but also whether or not that male will continue to do so. As to day care, MagiK...This just occured to me...I'm sure that this had to have happened even in the hunter/gatherer phase of human development as well. Again, using a predator analogy like wolves/lions/hyenas...the alphas and other hierarchy in the clan go off to hunt while the minor males and lesser females stay 'home' and watch 'the kids'. So too, I'll bet, did the hunter/gatherers and foragers in their time. The fittest (male AND female probably) go to look for food while the elderly or young stayed home to tend the younger children. Perhaps? [img]smile.gif[/img] When I talked of daycare I had totaly forgotten the wolfpack part of the discussion...I was contemplating just how dificult survival was and how far we have come from those days.

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