01-13-2003, 04:24 PM | #31 | |
Dracolisk
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Age: 43
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And let me reiterate what Barry said, neither of us was talking about the death penalty as such, we were talking about cruel and unusual punishment in the form of amputation! One thing that really bugs me is people who assume that just because I am capable of nuanced thinking, I must favour the criminal over the victim. Here's some news for them: I care about society as a whole - the non-criminal part of it in particular. And as Yorick so eloquently argued in another thread, society should NOT become a monster in order to punish the monsters. To me, state-approved killing diminishes the humanity of the state. So I couldn't care less about the criminals. In fact I think some people DESERVE to die for their crimes, I just don't think any other human being has a right to execute the punishment. But don't ever think I am all for pampering crooks and being nice to them. That's one of the silliest and even offensive arguments used by pro-capital punishment folks: that people against the death penalty feel that way out of some sick need to be nice to criminals. D'you know, I happen to think life imprisonment under strict conditions is a worse punishment than quick and merciful death, and it has the added bonus of zero risk of killing an innocent. Most people retort that conditions in American prisons are just too good to serve as adequate punishment: so why not argue to change THAT, in stead of arguing for capital punishment? There are enough crimes which do not require capital punishment, even if you are pro in more severe cases, so shouldn't you be most vehement about changing the conditions in prisons? Whew....... I'm sorry that rant came out quite so long, and a bit off-topic too. Ah well, at least I feel better now
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01-13-2003, 04:52 PM | #32 | |
Galvatron
Join Date: January 22, 2002
Location: california wine country
Age: 60
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01-13-2003, 05:04 PM | #33 | |
40th Level Warrior
Join Date: July 11, 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,916
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Liberal: Don't kill criminals, but kill your unborn babies. Conservative: Don't kill unborn babies, as a woman has no right to choose, but hey, we can decide to kill criminals whenever we like. All in all, [img]graemlins/1puke.gif[/img] Personally, I think that we should kill all felony criminals upon their first conviction and 50% of unborn babies (we'll draw lots) - both in the name of controlling population. |
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01-13-2003, 05:07 PM | #34 | |
Galvatron
Join Date: January 22, 2002
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“This is an impressive crowd, the haves and the have mores. <br />Some people call you the elite. <br />I call you my base.”<br />~ George W. Bush (2000) |
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01-13-2003, 05:10 PM | #35 | |
Dracolisk
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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TB, if only the whole world could be grouped according to those two American specifiers (conservative and liberal)... but alas. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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01-13-2003, 06:26 PM | #36 | |
Symbol of Cyric
Join Date: September 15, 2002
Location: Peterborough, ON, CANADA
Age: 60
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A system that allows the criminal to sue a homeowner that injures him while defending his home from intrusion is simply wrong. If a criminal commits a crime, any legal action he takes against his victims should be summarily thrown out of court, as far as I'm concerned criminals - especially violent ones - gave up their rights when they violated the victims rights. Mind you, that isn't to say they shouldn't have their day in court - I'd hate to see innocent people get hanged or some such but there are limits. EDIT>typos [ 01-13-2003, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: Sir Krustin ]
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01-13-2003, 06:32 PM | #37 | |
Symbol of Cyric
Join Date: September 15, 2002
Location: Peterborough, ON, CANADA
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This is what really irks me, the system is providing no protection from immediate harm - it can't. Yet it insists on individual members of society being rendered harmless. Any society that's lost it's trust isn't worth defending... [ 01-13-2003, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: Sir Krustin ]
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01-13-2003, 06:57 PM | #38 |
Symbol of Bane
Join Date: November 26, 2001
Location: Texas
Age: 75
Posts: 8,167
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"When the shield of the law fails to protect, the sword of the law will avenge." Sherlock Holmes, according to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
I quite deny "revelling" someone's pain, criminal or no, though that seems to be one of the charges death-penalty opponents like to hurl. I will agree with Barry to this extent: the reason that we do not allow torture is not the effect on the criminal, but the bad effect that it has on society. I simply do not consider the death penalty a "cruel and unusual punishment," and, so far the Supreme Court of the United States agrees with me.
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