either you're with us or with the terrorists....

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by G'kar: We treated timothy mcvieh like a criminal because he was one.He killed over 200. Are we gonna do a body count to determine how bad a terrorsist act is, and determine the recourse by it as well. yes mcviegh was an america, in america and under our juristicion , before some one uses that as logic I'll use it to point out we still used due and fair process. All it takes is a small fire to start an inferno.

Is that the same due process we used to indite Usama in '97? I'm sure glad it saved 7000+/- lives! That small fire was started 11 Sept., 2001!


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Airline ticket to Afghanistan $800
High powered rifle with scope $1000
Hotel room with roof access $100
A clean Head shot on that sack of Horse Manure Usuma Bin Laden PRICELESS!

[Liliara]

Originally posted by John D Harris: Is that the same due process we used to indite Usama in '97? I'm sure glad it saved 7000+/- lives! That small fire was started 11 Sept., 2001!

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!



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Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)

Originally posted by John D Harris: Is that the same due process we used to indite Usama in '97? I'm sure glad it saved 7000+/- lives! That small fire was started 11 Sept., 2001!

And you have conclusive proof that if our little cruise missles had actually killed bin ladin back in 98 that the events of sept 11 would have never happend.
Hell, We might as well just give up our whole justice system, execute all murderers without a trial, and bomb our prisons while were at it. think of all the money we'll save.

[Liliara]

Originally posted by G'kar: Originally posted by John D Harris: Is that the same due process we used to indite Usama in '97? I'm sure glad it saved 7000+/- lives! That small fire was started 11 Sept., 2001! And you have conclusive proof that if our little cruise missles had actually killed bin ladin back in 98 that the events of sept 11 would have never happend. Hell, We might as well just give up our whole justice system, execute all murderers without a trial, and bomb our prisons while were at it. think of all the money we'll save.

Use your head man! These are TERRORISTS, being guarded by a so-called government who works very closely with, and supports them. We are NOT talking about a domestic attack. Our government was perfectly willing to give up Mcveigh. The Taliban had the chance to do the same. They refused, even knowing the outcome.

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Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by G'kar: And you have conclusive proof that if our little cruise missles had actually killed bin ladin back in 98 that the events of sept 11 would have never happend. Hell, We might as well just give up our whole justice system, execute all murderers without a trial, and bomb our prisons while were at it. think of all the money we'll save.

Do you have the same standard of proof to the contrary? All I know is that we have 7000+- dead in an act of war. We will not survive as a nation if we allow attacks on our citizens.



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Airline ticket to Afghanistan $800
High powered rifle with scope $1000
Hotel room with roof access $100
A clean Head shot on that sack of Horse Manure Usuma Bin Laden PRICELESS!

Originally posted by Liliara: Use your head man! These are TERRORISTS, being guarded by a so-called government who works very closely with, and supports them. We are NOT talking about a domestic attack. Our government was perfectly willing to give up Mcveigh. The Taliban had the chance to do the same. They refused, even knowing the outcome.

I do use my head. And as far as I know, international law doesnt include a "good samaritan" clause. And its the spirit of our justice system that counts. Do we give it up because a criminal is foriegn? And I have yet to see any evidence that the Talibon does anything but tolerate bin ladin and they,in a spirit of justice have asked for PROOF, something our govt has yet to give. The Talibon has also sought to ask Bin ladin to leave on his own. Our govt calls that "laughable", but could it be true. Whats wrong with being reasonable? Do we give up our decency because someone else doesnt have it? Now, if they respond, in the face of conclusive evidence, the same way, we have recourse to call foul. Innocent til proven guilty. Mcviegh was a terrorist, and he thats the terms he got. Im done arguing with anyone concerning this. If one believes in the american justice system, then it applies to all criminals and all crimes.period.

[Djinn Raffo]

Originally posted by Liliara: Our government was perfectly willing to give up Mcveigh.

Ummm...What does this mean? Give him up to who? To themselves? To a lynch mob? To just let him go?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by G'kar: Originally posted by Liliara: Use your head man! These are TERRORISTS, being guarded by a so-called government who works very closely with, and supports them. We are NOT talking about a domestic attack. Our government was perfectly willing to give up Mcveigh. The Taliban had the chance to do the same. They refused, even knowing the outcome. I do use my head. And as far as I know, international law doesnt include a "good samaritan" clause. And its the spirit of our justice system that counts. Do we give it up because a criminal is foriegn? And I have yet to see any evidence that the Talibon does anything but tolerate bin ladin and they,in a spirit of justice have asked for PROOF, something our govt has yet to give. The Talibon has also sought to ask Bin ladin to leave on his own. Our govt calls that "laughable", but could it be true. Whats wrong with being reasonable? Do we give up our decency because someone else doesnt have it? Now, if they respond, in the face of conclusive evidence, the same way, we have recourse to call foul. Innocent til proven guilty. Mcviegh was a terrorist, and he thats the terms he got. Im done arguing with anyone concerning this. If one believes in the american justice system, then it applies to all criminals and all crimes.period.

It's got nothing to do with the American justice system. Bin Laden is a foriegn national residing in another country.

Perhaps the USA should hand over every citizen that visited Afgahnistan and had sex outside of marriage of Afgahni soil. That's breaking Afgahni law you know. 100 lashes.




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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

Originally posted by Yorick: It's got nothing to do with the American justice system. Bin Laden is a foriegn national residing in another country. Perhaps the USA should hand over every citizen that visited Afgahnistan and had sex outside of marriage of Afgahni soil. That's breaking Afgahni law you know. 100 lashes.

Thanks for making that great anology, it was so thoughtful and poignant. The criminal acts happened on american soil, so american law applies. The us already has indictments out for foriegners and if/when they are extradited here, they will get the due proccess of american justice system.
Thats it im really done now...Innoccent til proven guilty in a court of law.All criminals, be they terrorists or muggers. The model for civilized justice in many places through out the world, but not every where.

I think the international crime tribunal, or what ever its called should be in charge. No fair trial in america could be had. Several judges have suspened/postponed unrelated trials invloving arab decended defendants because of concern that emotional bias would cloud the jurors fair judgement, I see alot of that happening recently.

[Liliara]

Very good point Yorick!

A couple of others:

This doesn't have anything to do with the justice system, it was an act of war. bin Laden himself declared war on the U.S. a few years back. Not only did he target our military, but he told his 'followers' to target ALL Americans.

Another point has to do with what you said G'Kar, the government didn't call it laughable that the Taliban wanted proof, but that they said he left the country. That is only because everyone knew they were going to say it before they did. The reason we are not giving them all of the proof is because we would give away vital intelligence secrets on how we obtained the information. They have very close ties to him (the leader of the Taliban is wed to one of his daughters for goodness sake!) and that would be a VERY bad move! Do you really want to give a heads up to your enemy on how he can avoid getting caught next time? I don't think so!



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Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)