Backstab?

[sauranan]

Do I have to do anything special with my thief (Jan) to backstab or do I just have to get him behind the unfriendly?

Thanks

"We will carry our wounded but slay any deserters."

[J'aran]

You have to be behind the target and you have to be invisible, either from your Thief's Hide in Shadows skill or from an Invisibility spell.

[PoesRaven]

quote:

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Originally posted by J'aran:
You have to be behind the target and you have to be invisible, either from your Thief's Hide in Shadows skill or from an Invisibility spell.

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For your info sauranan, you must hide then attack while hidden. #
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Backstab is an awesome skill!!
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[tomonagi]

Okay, this backstab finannigan. I have _never_ managed to do it . Not once. I have tried with all thief characters in the game, using all types of weapons. Each time, my character "comes out of hiding", then does a normal melee attack. I have been behind the "baddie", hidden, or even invisible. Yet still, I have not once managed to backstab.

I don't think it is a glitch in the game, because opponents are able to backstab me, so the code is there. I need a real idiots guide explanation to this one. Cos I have a rl int of 4.

Thanks for any help given!

[SixOfSpades]

Nope, it's pretty straightforward:
1) Go Invisible or Stealth (make sure it says "Hide in Shadows Succeeded")
2) Don't let your character attack or talk to anyone (this will make them visible)
3) Get behind Mr. or Ms. I'd-like-to-have-a-dagger-stuck-between-my-kidneys
4) Grin like a maniac and go for blood
5) Run away and, if possible, repeat.

There are some enemies that are completely immune to backstab--chances are, you haven't met them yet. There is also a Thief that cannot Backstab: The Swashbuckler. But you say you're using Jan, and Jan isn't a Swashbuckler, so that's not your problem. I'd say that you either have a bug, or you think that Jan is Hidden when he really isn't--as I recall, Jan's Hide in Shadows and Move Silently skills aren't that high. Jan's Strength is pretty weak, too--that makes his Backstab less likely to hit the target. Not that I'm saying Jan is a bad Thief, heavens no, he's just not made for Backstabbing--that's what Yoshimo's for.

[PeeWee]

quote:

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Originally posted by SixOfSpades:
Nope, it's pretty straightforward:
1) Go Invisible or Stealth (make sure it says "Hide in Shadows Succeeded")
2) Don't let your character attack or talk to anyone (this will make them visible)
3) Get behind Mr. or Ms. I'd-like-to-have-a-dagger-stuck-between-my-kidneys
4) Grin like a maniac and go for blood
5) Run away and, if possible, repeat.

There are some enemies that are completely immune to backstab--chances are, you haven't met them yet. There is also a Thief that cannot Backstab: The Swashbuckler. But you say you're using Jan, and Jan isn't a Swashbuckler, so that's not your problem. I'd say that you either have a bug, or you think that Jan is Hidden when he really isn't--as I recall, Jan's Hide in Shadows and Move Silently skills aren't that high. Jan's Strength is pretty weak, too--that makes his Backstab less likely to hit the target. Not that I'm saying Jan is a bad Thief, heavens no, he's just not made for Backstabbing--that's what Yoshimo's for.

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Also,
Page 156 of the BGII SOA manual :

Strength bonuses

With low strength, one would get a penalty

Low str of 7 and under gives the player a penalty for THACO and DMG

str of 8 - 15 gives no bonus nor a penalty to either THACO or DMG

16str: THACO 0 , DMG +1
17str: THACO +1 , DMG +1
18str: THACO +1 , DMG +2

18/01-50: THACO +1 , DMG +3
18/51-75: THACO +2 , DMG +3
18/76-90: THACO +2 , DMG +4
18/91-99: THACO +2 , DMG +5
18/00: THACO +3 , DMG +6

19str: THACO +3 , DMG +7

Hide in shadows around 100 works great for me. I have two options. I normally either let the thief script1 do it, or I do it manually. Yes, clicking on your weapon will make you leave shadows, but it doesn't make you become visible right away(unless it's just plain crappy abilities he has). I -without the script on- hide in shadows, walk to the guy I'ma bout to whack and get right up to him. Don't leave any space. As soon as I'm planted, pause, click weapon and select target. Unpause(by now you have left shadows). Most of the time it works. Too slow in my opinion however. I can watch as my guy swings his sword for 3 or more times before he is detected.

I've also noticed I can backstab from the side while invisible(bug?).

For those who have problems doing it manually, set the thief to script1, it works wonders. Seems to give a higher chance to hit/backstab.

Also, put a girdle of strength on that guy to increase his initial odds of landing that backstab. Equip any + THACO gear and further those chances. If ya got the girdle on, already you will be seeing some nice dmg, especially on a critical hit.

If his hide in shadows is weak, find some gear that changes thieving stats. I barely use potions for any of this so I can't tell you right off if they help( I don't consider this a fix since potions are expendable). I do currently have a ring and vest that helps...when I want to break the monotony of group rushing or using Aerie and her staff of the magi.

[Memnoch]

quote:

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Originally posted by tomonagi:
Okay, this backstab finannigan. I have _never_ managed to do it . Not once. I have tried with all thief characters in the game, using all types of weapons. Each time, my character "comes out of hiding", then does a normal melee attack. I have been behind the "baddie", hidden, or even invisible. Yet still, I have not once managed to backstab.

I don't think it is a glitch in the game, because opponents are able to backstab me, so the code is there. I need a real idiots guide explanation to this one. Cos I have a rl int of 4.

Thanks for any help given!

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You need to make sure that the person is facing AWAY from you and you are behind them, and that you are using bladed weapons that only thieves can use (eg long/short sword, katana, dagger). You can't backstab with blunt weapons in 2nd Ed.

[LennonCook]

quote:

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Originally posted by Memnoch:



You can't backstab with blunt weapons in 2nd Ed.

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I have heard of people backstabbing in SOA with a quaterstaff... and if that isnt blunt, I dont know WHAT is!! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[PeeWee]

Memnoch, even if it's the second edition rules, I'm not betting money that BGII has followed or restricted itself to adhering 100% to it - well, until I myself have tried to backstab with a mace or club, whichever the rogue can be proficient in.

I am changing my post now...I just now tried it. I'd rather know for a fact than to go on what someone else said. The staff of the Rynn CAN be used to backstab with. The clubs can be used. Maces, no.

Anything the rogue can be proficient in provided it follows the in-game rules is allowed. If the rogue can't equip it in SOA, then it's out.

I just now tried so it's validated. I won't bring in TOB items since I don't have TOB nor know exactly how rogues are restricted in their backstabs with all the items avaiable to them there.

I backstabbed my own party members as a quick way to do the test, and my main is a bounty hunter which is capable of backstabbing. The party npcs didn't turn around because they weren't hostile nor scripted to do so when I have scripts off. So, also, you do not necessarily have to be "invisible" and behind the opponent to get a successful backstab in. If the target is held, I think your backstabs would work also. I'm deducting this from what I've done so far.

On Aerie, she died quickly to a landed BS. I had to strip Jaheira since I kept missing...forgot about her ac, heh. I invissed up right behind her, missed 3 shots with the staff of rynn and finally landed a backstab with it. Do what ya will with the info...validate it if ya want. that's the best thing to do when in doubt.

Cheers.

[Whailor]

They need to add some new name then, when you Backstab with a staff of club.. Backwhack? In any case, staves can be used indeed to "backwhack" someone, and I mean, why not - it's effective when you stab a dagger into someone's back or hit them with a brick/club/staff? Result is the same anyway And yes, PeeWee is right in that BG2 didn't follow the second edition rules "all the way".