Commentary On The American and Bush Love Affair - Page 2

02-09-2002, 04:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by fable:
American and Bush love affair...i truly believe that the press is being told what not to run.

Djinn, what I keep hearing is that thanks to the languages being so esoteric and the areas of the globe involved being so sparsely populated, it's less a case of the press being told what not to run than all information being funneled through a single source: the Pentagon. One "journalist watcher" (I think that's the latest euphemism) I heard recently termed it "a daily orchestrated flower show." So everybody is basically giving the Pentagon line, whatever their inclinations to do otherwise. Whether this will change remains to be seen.

No one is forcing the news agencies to use the pentagon as their sole source of information. In every conflict reporters and photographers have gone in on their own and reported the truth...if you aren't hearing what you want to hear..it just might be that your not hearing it because it aint there....just a thought.

SSJ4Sephiroth · 02-09-2002, 04:38 PM

actually MagiK, if i remember correctly it was the Americans who wiped out a majority of the Native Americans through disease and warfare while the French, for the most part, got along rather well. After all, they allied against the colonies during the French and Indian War.

and i hope you're joking with that last paragraph...

02-09-2002, 05:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SSJ4Sephiroth:
actually MagiK, if i remember correctly it was the Americans who wiped out a majority of the Native Americans through disease and warfare while the French, for the most part, got along rather well. After all, they allied against the colonies during the French and Indian War.

and i hope you're joking with that last paragraph...

The whole thing was a joke of sorts...and no it was not the "AMERICANS" who originated that lil thing about germ warfare.
I was discussing an earlier time in the history of the North American Continent before the colonies started their westward expansion. To be fair It wasnt the french who started this type of warfare..at least I dont think so..it started during castle seiges when the beseiging armies would catapult diseased corpses of men and animals over the walls into the fortifications to spread the filth. So anyway yes I stand by what I said in so much that it did happen. Im thinking it was the French and Indian war...but now Im getting my dates all screwed up and dont have access to the references at the moment. [img]smile.gif[/img]

02-09-2002, 05:55 PM

The Americans in their extermination campaigns against native Americans were only following the examples set for them by their former country men..the English, the Frech, the Spanish...while reprehensible by todays standards it was just the way things were done in the earlier years of our so called civilization. Fortunately we have matured beyond the point where we just wipe out whole cultures willy nilly.

Ronn_Bman · 02-09-2002, 06:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:

The whole thing was a joke of sorts...and no it was not the "AMERICANS" who originated that lil thing about germ warfare.
I was discussing an earlier time in the history of the North American Continent before the colonies started their westward expansion. To be fair It wasnt the french who started this type of warfare..at least I dont think so..it started during castle seiges when the beseiging armies would catapult diseased corpses of men and animals over the walls into the fortifications to spread the filth. So anyway yes I stand by what I said in so much that it did happen. Im thinking it was the French and Indian war...but now Im getting my dates all screwed up and dont have access to the references at the moment. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Actually, I believe it was an English General who gave the blankets of small pox victims to the Indians. It wiped out their entire tribe.

fable · 02-09-2002, 07:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:

No one is forcing the news agencies to use the pentagon as their sole source of information. In every conflict reporters and photographers have gone in on their own and reported the truth...if you aren't hearing what you want to hear..it just might be that your not hearing it because it aint there....just a thought.

How do you report "the truth," Magik, when it involves air raids and statements of success/failure which are not (understandably) announced in advance, and whose results can only be given by the source of air raids, themselves? That's what a lot of the American effort has been Afghanistan: air raids. There was no other source for information on its success/failure.

02-09-2002, 08:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by fable:

How do you report "the truth," Magik, when it involves air raids and statements of success/failure which are not (understandably) announced in advance, and whose results can only be given by the source of air raids, themselves? That's what a lot of the American effort has been Afghanistan: air raids. There was no other source for information on its success/failure.

A good pair of binoculars and a perch near the battlefield come to mind...hell if they can watch things at groom lake Im pretty sure they can observe likely target area's. Did that answer your question?

Oh not to mention...with a little coordination its not all that hard to observe activities at some airfields ..with modern communications you make a call, say "Hey some planes just left" and your guys in the battle area sit and watch the show..maybe chow down on some popcorn and enjoy themselves....geez complain complain complain whine whine whine everything has to be spoon fed to everyone...sheesh

02-09-2002, 08:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:

Actually, I believe it was an English General who gave the blankets of small pox victims to the Indians. It wiped out their entire tribe.

Good Heavens!!!!! You mean I besmirched an innocent people?? hmmm will have to dig up some alternate dirt on the Noble French people [img]smile.gif[/img]
of course there was the time they turned Patsy and Arthur away from their castle and told them that they already had a "Grail" (not to mention catapulting innocent livestock at Arthurs group).

02-09-2002, 08:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Djinn Raffo:
I just dont understand the massive military build up? Why?

(Trillions of dollars...uh what is all this black op spending actually paying for?)

[ 02-09-2002: Message edited by: Djinn Raffo ]

Djin, a serious answer for a good question...This so called "MASSIVE' build up isnt quite as massive as you may believe. You see the USA is coming out of a period where force integrity was compromised by MASSIVE cuts (roughly 10 years worth) while simultaneously expending what stores we had stockpiled in one war and half a bazillion little police actions we should have stayed out of...With 8 years of leadership by a man who had no concept of what a military is for, trying to act alternately like the worlds policeman, and then as the worlds best diversion creator. We need a lot of this new "MASSIVE" build up just to replace expended stockpiles. We also need to keep up a very high level of spending in our intelligence gathering agencies, some of which are part of the military (each branch contributes unique and "special" resources). Now as for the amounts being spent, TRILLIONS you say?? really? Last I heard the number was under a single trillion...so lets not go too overboard here. Cry about the number if you must but don't exagerate.

As for your question about "Black Ops" spending. If you don't understnad the need for spending that has very very little congressional awareness..then you are too naive about the world to really understand I suppose. (I was going to say ignorant but people see to think that word is some kind of insult, even though it is not).
All nations have some degree of what we call "Black" budgetary items. This is expected and done for one reason and one reason alone. Secrecy! It is well known that in general people can't keep their damn mouths shut and will leak any juicy tidbit they get hold of. A nation cannot protect it self if every defensive plan, item or project is blasted all over the headlines..so what the USA did is to create "Black Projects" where there is a limited congressional awareness..there are some few who are allowed into these projects so that there is some oversight but no general accounting to the whole of congress. Find a better way to do this and then write it up and submit it to the pentagon...I gaurentee that they will take note...if it actually accomplishes the goal.

02-09-2002, 08:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by fable:
[b] All of these still reamin, especially after the heavy deficit budget plan he proposed.

You think he's done a good job; I don't. Only time will tell, but I sure hope a spirit of rampant nationalism doesn't try to wipe out all dissent or disagreement in the US over how our president is doing.

Soooo you think deficit spending is the root of all evil?

Do you REALLY think that Al Gore would be doing a better job at this time? (by the way...he basicly said he would be doing much the same in one sound bite that I caught...Im dating a Lawyer that attended the recent DNC meeting in Kentucky..or was it Tennessee...Shes a rabid liberal but according to her most of the politicians seem to be saying that they would do much the same as Bush...I only have her word for that though since Staunch Conservative types dont get invited to those things) Anywya I wish you luck in finding a good democrat to run in the next Presidential election.

02-09-2002, 04:36 PM	#11
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by fable: American and Bush love affair...i truly believe that the press is being told what not to run. Djinn, what I keep hearing is that thanks to the languages being so esoteric and the areas of the globe involved being so sparsely populated, it's less a case of the press being told what not to run than all information being funneled through a single source: the Pentagon. One "journalist watcher" (I think that's the latest euphemism) I heard recently termed it "a daily orchestrated flower show." So everybody is basically giving the Pentagon line, whatever their inclinations to do otherwise. Whether this will change remains to be seen. No one is forcing the news agencies to use the pentagon as their sole source of information. In every conflict reporters and photographers have gone in on their own and reported the truth...if you aren't hearing what you want to hear..it just might be that your not hearing it because it aint there....just a thought.

02-09-2002, 05:52 PM	#13
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by SSJ4Sephiroth: actually MagiK, if i remember correctly it was the Americans who wiped out a majority of the Native Americans through disease and warfare while the French, for the most part, got along rather well. After all, they allied against the colonies during the French and Indian War. and i hope you're joking with that last paragraph... The whole thing was a joke of sorts...and no it was not the "AMERICANS" who originated that lil thing about germ warfare. I was discussing an earlier time in the history of the North American Continent before the colonies started their westward expansion. To be fair It wasnt the french who started this type of warfare..at least I dont think so..it started during castle seiges when the beseiging armies would catapult diseased corpses of men and animals over the walls into the fortifications to spread the filth. So anyway yes I stand by what I said in so much that it did happen. Im thinking it was the French and Indian war...but now Im getting my dates all screwed up and dont have access to the references at the moment. [img]smile.gif[/img]

02-09-2002, 06:54 PM	#15
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 57 Posts: 5,177	quote: Originally posted by MagiK: The whole thing was a joke of sorts...and no it was not the "AMERICANS" who originated that lil thing about germ warfare. I was discussing an earlier time in the history of the North American Continent before the colonies started their westward expansion. To be fair It wasnt the french who started this type of warfare..at least I dont think so..it started during castle seiges when the beseiging armies would catapult diseased corpses of men and animals over the walls into the fortifications to spread the filth. So anyway yes I stand by what I said in so much that it did happen. Im thinking it was the French and Indian war...but now Im getting my dates all screwed up and dont have access to the references at the moment. [img]smile.gif[/img] Actually, I believe it was an English General who gave the blankets of small pox victims to the Indians. It wiped out their entire tribe. __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

02-09-2002, 07:52 PM	#16
fable Quintesson Join Date: March 17, 2001 Location: Where I am. Posts: 1,089	quote: Originally posted by MagiK: No one is forcing the news agencies to use the pentagon as their sole source of information. In every conflict reporters and photographers have gone in on their own and reported the truth...if you aren't hearing what you want to hear..it just might be that your not hearing it because it aint there....just a thought. How do you report "the truth," Magik, when it involves air raids and statements of success/failure which are not (understandably) announced in advance, and whose results can only be given by the source of air raids, themselves? That's what a lot of the American effort has been Afghanistan: air raids. There was no other source for information on its success/failure.

02-09-2002, 08:07 PM	#17
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by fable: How do you report "the truth," Magik, when it involves air raids and statements of success/failure which are not (understandably) announced in advance, and whose results can only be given by the source of air raids, themselves? That's what a lot of the American effort has been Afghanistan: air raids. There was no other source for information on its success/failure. A good pair of binoculars and a perch near the battlefield come to mind...hell if they can watch things at groom lake Im pretty sure they can observe likely target area's. Did that answer your question? Oh not to mention...with a little coordination its not all that hard to observe activities at some airfields ..with modern communications you make a call, say "Hey some planes just left" and your guys in the battle area sit and watch the show..maybe chow down on some popcorn and enjoy themselves....geez complain complain complain whine whine whine everything has to be spoon fed to everyone...sheesh

02-09-2002, 04:38 PM	#12
SSJ4Sephiroth Beholder Join Date: May 4, 2001 Location: The Outside Looking In Age: 37 Posts: 4,361	actually MagiK, if i remember correctly it was the Americans who wiped out a majority of the Native Americans through disease and warfare while the French, for the most part, got along rather well. After all, they allied against the colonies during the French and Indian War. and i hope you're joking with that last paragraph...

02-09-2002, 05:55 PM	#14
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	The Americans in their extermination campaigns against native Americans were only following the examples set for them by their former country men..the English, the Frech, the Spanish...while reprehensible by todays standards it was just the way things were done in the earlier years of our so called civilization. Fortunately we have matured beyond the point where we just wipe out whole cultures willy nilly.

02-09-2002, 08:09 PM	#18
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: Actually, I believe it was an English General who gave the blankets of small pox victims to the Indians. It wiped out their entire tribe. Good Heavens!!!!! You mean I besmirched an innocent people?? hmmm will have to dig up some alternate dirt on the Noble French people [img]smile.gif[/img] of course there was the time they turned Patsy and Arthur away from their castle and told them that they already had a "Grail" (not to mention catapulting innocent livestock at Arthurs group).

02-09-2002, 08:25 PM	#19
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: I just dont understand the massive military build up? Why? (Trillions of dollars...uh what is all this black op spending actually paying for?) [ 02-09-2002: Message edited by: Djinn Raffo ] Djin, a serious answer for a good question...This so called "MASSIVE' build up isnt quite as massive as you may believe. You see the USA is coming out of a period where force integrity was compromised by MASSIVE cuts (roughly 10 years worth) while simultaneously expending what stores we had stockpiled in one war and half a bazillion little police actions we should have stayed out of...With 8 years of leadership by a man who had no concept of what a military is for, trying to act alternately like the worlds policeman, and then as the worlds best diversion creator. We need a lot of this new "MASSIVE" build up just to replace expended stockpiles. We also need to keep up a very high level of spending in our intelligence gathering agencies, some of which are part of the military (each branch contributes unique and "special" resources). Now as for the amounts being spent, TRILLIONS you say?? really? Last I heard the number was under a single trillion...so lets not go too overboard here. Cry about the number if you must but don't exagerate. As for your question about "Black Ops" spending. If you don't understnad the need for spending that has very very little congressional awareness..then you are too naive about the world to really understand I suppose. (I was going to say ignorant but people see to think that word is some kind of insult, even though it is not). All nations have some degree of what we call "Black" budgetary items. This is expected and done for one reason and one reason alone. Secrecy! It is well known that in general people can't keep their damn mouths shut and will leak any juicy tidbit they get hold of. A nation cannot protect it self if every defensive plan, item or project is blasted all over the headlines..so what the USA did is to create "Black Projects" where there is a limited congressional awareness..there are some few who are allowed into these projects so that there is some oversight but no general accounting to the whole of congress. Find a better way to do this and then write it up and submit it to the pentagon...I gaurentee that they will take note...if it actually accomplishes the goal.

02-09-2002, 08:30 PM	#20
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by fable: [b] All of these still reamin, especially after the heavy deficit budget plan he proposed. You think he's done a good job; I don't. Only time will tell, but I sure hope a spirit of rampant nationalism doesn't try to wipe out all dissent or disagreement in the US over how our president is doing. Soooo you think deficit spending is the root of all evil? Do you REALLY think that Al Gore would be doing a better job at this time? (by the way...he basicly said he would be doing much the same in one sound bite that I caught...Im dating a Lawyer that attended the recent DNC meeting in Kentucky..or was it Tennessee...Shes a rabid liberal but according to her most of the politicians seem to be saying that they would do much the same as Bush...I only have her word for that though since Staunch Conservative types dont get invited to those things) Anywya I wish you luck in finding a good democrat to run in the next Presidential election.

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