The OFFICIAL Ironworks Football World Cup Thread--Part IV

[norompanlasolas]

another thing that bothers me. since they dont have so many arguments to disqualify teams, they address their hairstyles, money, and other things that belong off the pitch. what have italy hairstyles have to do with them losing???

its ridiculous (its done in a humorous way, but also to reinforce his argument) and it has nothing to do with italy winning or losing. anybody who has played football knows that when you enter the pitch all those things dont count and the richest player works his ass off for the better of the team as the lowliest one (and i reckon the bigwigs in fifa have NEVER EVER hit a football in their lives). the argument of the lost occasions like vieris is also sutpid. so, if you lose a goal its ok that you get cheated on by the referees? nonsense. you can play like shit, and still win honestly. thats football.

[Grojlach]

[quote]Originally posted by norompanlasolas:

Originally posted by Memnoch: [qb]of course, if you are going to disqualify every argument with a "bad loosers" sentence, this will not be worth much.

Nah, I reserve that to the hypocrites who don't start complaining about the WC being disgusting until their favourite team has lost and to the moron accusing the South Koreans of drug abuse.

[Memnoch]

Norom, your heart is in the right place, but you're basing your entire argument on bad calls by referees that happened to ref the Korea games. There is no conclusive evidence that a conspiracy actually took place - it's all anecdotal. If this was NOT South Korea - if it was Portugal or even Poland or tiny Ecuador making this run, questionable decisions and all, I doubt there would be all this whinging about conspiracy. Because they are a European or South American established team.

People can't believe that little South Korea can beat the big guns. Think back to 1966 - Italy underestimated tiny North Korea and they got beaten in England. North Korea went to 3-0 up against mighty Portugal and it took a magic performance from Eusebio to beat them.

Unfortunately for Spain/Italy/Portugal this time, there is no Eusebio to bail them out. You can't say that any of the big superstar players earning $$$ dominated this tournament and justified their salary - not Zidane, not Veron, not Totti, not Raul, not Figo. Only Rivaldo and Ronaldo have looked like the stars that they are - the rest are players like Ahn, Papa Bouba Diop, Hasan Sas, Landon Donovan, and other so-called "no-names".

Could it be POSSIBLE that a little thing called the power of the human spirit may be helping South Korea in their march to the final?? I actually think that they have grown stronger through the tournament, as they have grown in confidence.

Can you pinpoint the crucial time when an underdog begins to win against a stronger team? It is that moment when the underdog realises it can win - that moment is the subtraction of fear by the underdog. For me, that moment happened when South Korea beat Portugal. Nobody expected them to, they had some help with lady luck, but as they say, good teams create their own luck. They have taken the ball and run with it (to use a rugby term).

Nobody is denying that the refereeing standard at this Cup has been poor - the linesmen have been worse. But people are putting two and two together and coming up with five when there is no evidence to suggest foul play. It's all rumor and anecdotes. Sure the referees have been shit at times, but give South Korea some credit for heaven's sake.

To imply that South Korea are benefiting from favorable refereeing is to detract from the outstanding performances they have put in, and smacks of excuses for poor performances from the teams they beat on the way. It's as simple as this: people can't believe that South Korea are playing as well as they are, so they MUST be cheating. Right?

This is how I see it, anyway. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Dundee Slaytern]

Wasn't the first WC won by the home team?

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by norompanlasolas: another thing that bothers me. since they dont have so many arguments to disqualify teams, they address their hairstyles, money, and other things that belong off the pitch. what have italy hairstyles have to do with them losing??? its ridiculous (its done in a humorous way, but also to reinforce his argument) and it has nothing to do with italy winning or losing. anybody who has played football knows that when you enter the pitch all those things dont count and the richest player works his ass off for the better of the team as the lowliest one (and i reckon the bigwigs in fifa have NEVER EVER hit a football in their lives). the argument of the lost occasions like vieris is also sutpid. so, if you lose a goal its ok that you get cheated on by the referees? nonsense. you can play like shit, and still win honestly. thats football.

It's called satirising a team because they are carrying on like idiots about how they were hard done by. In Australia it's called whinging or being gasbags.

Here's an example: you've read about Luciano Gaucci, the Perugia president who sacked Ahn, the Korean who scored the winning goal against Italy? He has to win the prize for being the biggest sore loser of all time. It's these kinds of actions that make columnists write things like what I posted above - it's easier to poke fun at people who are carrying on with histrionics like the Italians are carrying on - rather than people who take defeat with grace, congratulate South Korea, and then work quietly towards improving the standard of refereeing, rather than bleating "we wuz robbed!!" over and over and over again.

[norompanlasolas]

Originally posted by Memnoch: Norom, your heart is in the right place, but you're basing your entire argument on bad calls by referees that happened to ref the Korea games. There is no conclusive evidence that a conspiracy actually took place - it's all anecdotal. If this was NOT South Korea - if it was Portugal or even Poland or tiny Ecuador making this run, questionable decisions and all, I doubt there would be all this whinging about conspiracy. Because they are a European or South American established team. People can't believe that little South Korea can beat the big guns. Think back to 1966 - Italy underestimated tiny North Korea and they got beaten in England. North Korea went to 3-0 up against mighty Portugal and it took a magic performance from Eusebio to beat them. Unfortunately for Spain/Italy/Portugal this time, there is no Eusebio to bail them out. You can't say that any of the big superstar players earning $$$ dominated this tournament and justified their salary - not Zidane, not Veron, not Totti, not Raul, not Figo. Only Rivaldo and Ronaldo have looked like the stars that they are - the rest are players like Ahn, Papa Bouba Diop, Hasan Sas, Landon Donovan, and other so-called "no-names". Could it be POSSIBLE that a little thing called the power of the human spirit may be helping South Korea in their march to the final?? I actually think that they have grown stronger through the tournament, as they have grown in confidence. Can you pinpoint the crucial time when an underdog begins to win against a stronger team? It is that moment when the underdog realises it can win - that moment is the subtraction of fear by the underdog. For me, that moment happened when South Korea beat Portugal. Nobody expected them to, they had some help with lady luck, but as they say, good teams create their own luck. They have taken the ball and run with it (to use a rugby term). Nobody is denying that the refereeing standard at this Cup has been poor - the linesmen have been worse. But people are putting two and two together and coming up with five when there is no evidence to suggest foul play. It's all rumor and anecdotes. Sure the referees have been shit at times, but give South Korea some credit for heaven's sake. To imply that South Korea are benefiting from favorable refereeing is to detract from the outstanding performances they have put in, and smacks of excuses for poor performances from the teams they beat on the way. It's as simple as this: people can't believe that South Korea are playing as well as they are, so they MUST be cheating. Right? This is how I see it, anyway. [img]smile.gif[/img]

its ok. and i agree with you to some extent! not all, of course. [img]smile.gif[/img]
but i can definitely understand your opinion, as well as grojs.

anyways, this is football. so its just not possible that 2 people agree on it completely (well, except on brasil being shite). [img]tongue.gif[/img]

edit: btw, i think i broke my all time number of postings in one day, so im going to call it quits for today.

[ 06-22-2002, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: norompanlasolas ]

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by norompanlasolas: well, actually memnoch, i think it would be bad for football if south korea beat brazil. thats because it would make the world cup some sort of a joke, where the local team (no matter how bad they are) can win the thing.

Actually, the home team has won the World Cup 6 times. Uruguay, Italy, England, Germany, Argentina and France have all won it on home soil. It's amazing what home support can do to galvanize a football team.

btw, i think that if they play brazil they will be creamed.

So said the naysayers about South Korea against Portugal, Italy and Spain. If these three nations could have "creamed" South Korea, when why was Italy sitting back defending a 1-0 lead for the entire second half? Could it be POSSIBLE that Italy blew it by not "creaming" South Korea? What about Spain? I was very disappointed at the way they played - they lacked urgency and had some poor finishing - without Raul they looked like half the team they were in the first round (and they hardly looked impressive against Slovenia, South Africa and Ireland, where they were also guilty of trying to close down the game).

well, unless brazil gets 2 or 3 goals disallowed, a player sent off and a penalty against, but you cannot fight that, can you?

Now I know you're running out of arguments, mate. [img]smile.gif[/img] You're resorting to hypothesizing about how the referees will *cheat* Brazil out of victory. Dare I mention the "Hand of God" goal that helped Argentina dispose of England and put them towards their second world title?

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by norompanlasolas: its ok. and i agree with you to some extent! not all, of course. [img]smile.gif[/img] but i can definitely understand your opinion, as well as grojs. anyways, this is football. so its just not possible that 2 people agree on it completely (well, except on brasil being shite). [img]tongue.gif[/img] edit: btw, i think i broke my all time number of postings in one day, so im going to call it quits for today.

Fair enough. I'm not going to force my opinion on you, that's not my purpose - hopefully we've both learned something from this discussion, which has been done in good spirits. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Staralfur]

Speaking of poor excuses for loosing, here's one the Russians have come up with;


Japanese techies accused of bending balls
By Nick Farrell [18-06-2002]
Russian hackers blame World Cup defeat on magnetic field
A group of Russian hackers claim to have uncovered a bizarre hi-tech conspiracy that caused their football team to lose against Japan.
The claim has been taken seriously and reported in the Russian newspaper Pravda, once the official organ of the Communist Party.

The Russian hackers believe the results of the game were faked due to the efforts of Japanese technicians serving the stadium in Yokohama.

Igor B, one of the active members of the hacker group, told Pravda that his group had managed to get into the inner computer network of the stadium where the game was being played.

The stadium had a complicated computer system but the hackers managed to get into the system of technical servicing that looked after the light control systems, automatic watering and heating of the stadium.

The heating apparently got the hackers confused because they believed there was no need for it in such a warm country as Japan.

When they looked closer they worked out that the system was actually meant for creating a powerful electromagnetic current and field, the capacity of which varied from several variables that were coming from dozens of computers.

"We did not find out what the circuit and the magnetic field were meant for on the stadium; maybe they could be used for scaring birds and insects away. Japanese are very inventive and they can make up very unusual things sometimes," Igor B told Pravda.

However, the hackers believe that the magnetic field was actually used to bend the penalty kick away from the Japanese goal that cost Russia the game.

"After the ball was kicked, it was flying on the proper parabola, according to physical laws. All of a sudden it flew up without reaching the bar of the Japanese goal," Igor B said.

He said that the new World Cup balls had a fine hexagonal incision of thin wire on them which could be seen by close-up cameras at the time.

At the Institute of Mechanics at Moscow State University, Professor Dmitriyev of the laboratory of supersonic speed said that Russian scientists were carrying out similar experiments, "although not to fix soccer matches".



Edit for colour reasons

[ 06-22-2002, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: Staralfur ]

[Grojlach]

Staralfur, that is hysterical!
Even though the blue font is hurting my eyes.