Morality in the American Presidency

[andora20]

First of all, Jabbidas is not trying to insult the American Nation, he was critisizing the GOVERNMENT!!. Second of all, The world would be a lot worse if the UN did not exist. It is not just the moral face of the west. If you have ever attended a UN general assembly you would find that the Western countries is only a tiny part of the assembly itself. We should not judge an country by all the bad things they do, but rather about all the things they are doing to fix them, (including what the Irish government is doing about all us wifebeaters here in Ireland!!!!)So what is the American government doing about reducing emissions to the levels agreed to by the Koyoto Protocal?

[Memnoch]

I've just come back from the Australia Day Long Weekend to find tempers raised here about the US yet again - a week after we shut down the War forum. No flaming yet, but I can see where it's headed. I don't really care how it started or why.

I can't really see what the war on terror has to do with the morality of Carter's government, but threads sometimes take a life of their own. Let's just keep it civil, ok? It's not worth losing your cool over.

[Barry the Sprout]

Ronn, just very very briefly. The embargo of goods to Iraq is and isn't a UN run operation. Every year the UN votea against it and declares it unlawful. Every year the US uses its veto via the security council to completely ignore that and carry on. So whilst the UN is acually conducting the embargo the UN doesn't support the embargo. Confusing, and frankly worrying.

But yeah, this thread was about morality in political leadership. It got round to the US specifically as we were talking about the morality of American foreign policy. The US is a prime example of how there are at least two ways of measuring success and/or morality. The actions of the US, or the American government and political ruling class, are extremely successful as far as they themselves are concerned. As far as the rest of the country is concerned they are less succesful. So are they in any way morally based? It is an extremely difficult question to answer. What is morality and by what grounds do we measure it.

We could say that a morally good action is one that is based on good intentions, by which the US foreign policy is often morally good from the point of view of the US citizens. But you could also say that a morally good action is one that results in a good outcome, which leaves many more actions debatable at best. But even then the definition of a good action is left open. Good from who's point of view? This questions is such a bitch because pretty much all the terms contained in it are undefined, or at least debatable in their definition. If I got this for a politics essay I would jump for joy - you can argue three points of view at once without contradicting yourself. Fun!

[Yorick]

quote:

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Originally posted by Tarox:
If you look back, people who are well remembered for doing great things for the country are those who were involved in wars or battles.

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Like Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Socrates, Homer, Plato, Edison, Shakespeare, Yeats, Byron, Luther, Luther-King, Mandella, Tacitus, Rembrandt, Confucious, Sidartha, Marco Polo, or Mahatma Ghandi?

Heck mate, I think your view shows more about your nature than human nature. These guys are lauded for doing far more for their nations and cultures - for the world - than capturing a town.

[Melusine]

quote:

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Originally posted by Yorick:


Like Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Socrates, Homer, Plato, Edison, Shakespeare, Yeats, Byron, Luther, Luther-King, Mandella, Tacitus, Rembrandt, Confucious, Sidartha, Marco Polo, or Mahatma Ghandi?

Heck mate, I think your view shows more about your nature than human nature. These guys are lauded for doing far more for their nations and cultures - for the world - than capturing a town.

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[img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Sir Taliesin]

quote:

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Originally posted by Yorick:


Like Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Socrates, Homer, Plato, Edison, Shakespeare, Yeats, Byron, Luther, Luther-King, Mandella, Tacitus, Rembrandt, Confucious, Sidartha, Marco Polo, or Mahatma Ghandi?

Heck mate, I think your view shows more about your nature than human nature. These guys are lauded for doing far more for their nations and cultures - for the world - than capturing a town.

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GREAT STATEMENT YORICK!!! Wish I had thought of it!

BTW, how did we get on Amereica bashing or supposed America bashing? I thought this thread was concerning morality in leadership? We got way off subject here!

[ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: Sir Taliesin ]

[Sazerac]

quote:

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Originally posted by Memnoch:
I've just come back from the Australia Day Long Weekend to find tempers raised here about the US yet again - a week after we shut down the War forum. No flaming yet, but I can see where it's headed. I don't really care how it started or why.

I can't really see what the war on terror has to do with the morality of Carter's government, but threads sometimes take a life of their own. Let's just keep it civil, ok? It's not worth losing your cool over.

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Hehehhe...got news for ya, buddy...we have more than this thread.

Fasten your seat belt, Mems...it's gonna be a bumpy night!

[Ronn_Bman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Barry the Sprout:
Ronn, just very very briefly. The embargo of goods to Iraq is and isn't a UN run operation. Every year the UN votea against it and declares it unlawful. Every year the US uses its veto via the security council to completely ignore that and carry on. So whilst the UN is acually conducting the embargo the UN doesn't support the embargo. Confusing, and frankly worrying.

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True, but the thing that's really worrying is that the UN would want to lift the embargo despite the fact that Iraq has refused to allow inspections. The Iraqis sent the UN inspectors "packing", the UN demanded the inspectors be allowed to do their jog, the Iraqis sid no, and the UN wants to lift the sanctions? Why is it ok for Iraq to fly in the face of the UN orders?

Even if every nation in the world except the US is against the embargo, the embargo itself is not against humanitarian aid (never has been) and is not causing the starvation of Iraqi children.

[Ronn_Bman]

quote:

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Originally posted by AzureWolf:


This one thing I have a problem with Ronn, it was not in any way meant to BE a decent thing he did. The only reason that he stopped it in the first place was because she was a US citizen and could have caused trouble. This was the reason he stopped it not because he felt bad and he should stand up for the poor woman.

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I'll agree that any decent person should have tried to stop it whether she was black, white, red, or green. Whether she was a nun or a prostitute. It's just that the article seemed just a bit vague on this "leader" who cursed in "unmistakable American English".

[Lord of Alcohol]

If the UN tells us(United States) what to do, do we listen? Nope. Yet we expect other countries to do as the UN says. What a screwed up system.....