05-03-2002, 12:06 PM | #161 | |
Fzoul Chembryl
Join Date: August 30, 2001
Location: somewhere
Age: 54
Posts: 1,785
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Quote:
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Master Barbsman and wielder of the razor wit!<br /><br />There are dark angels among us. They present themselves in shining raiment but there is, in their hearts, the blackness of the abyss. |
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05-03-2002, 12:09 PM | #162 |
Fzoul Chembryl
Join Date: August 30, 2001
Location: somewhere
Age: 54
Posts: 1,785
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I'm sorry if I sounded snitty there but I grow weary of otherwise intelligent people who fall for "sham" statistics. False and convoluted statistics are an epidemic in this country.
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Master Barbsman and wielder of the razor wit!<br /><br />There are dark angels among us. They present themselves in shining raiment but there is, in their hearts, the blackness of the abyss. |
05-03-2002, 12:23 PM | #163 | |
Galvatron
Join Date: January 10, 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Age: 56
Posts: 2,109
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Quote:
SO... given the preponderance of evidence that the presence or lack of guns doesn't have much of a statistical bearing on violence... why do you cling to this belief that if all the guns were gone our problems would be solved? Pointing to non-violent/non-gun countries just isn't a good argument, because there's examples of pro-gun/non-violent countries too. The bottom line is that violence is the problem, and the tool of the violence is TOTALLY irrelevant to the solution. I think it's just a LOT easier for people to pick a scapegoat to blame the problem of violence on... a nice easy target for our ire. But the real problem does not present such an easy target, violence is woven through our society, supported by our media (who would rather show someone getting their head blown off than two people making love). The solution to the problem involves EVERYONE changing... not just some OTHER gun owning freak needst to change... YOU need to change! Not as much fun to point fingers and realize your pointing at yourself... MUCH better to blame problems on some distorted picture of a gun owner. (NOT talking about anyone in particular here, just generically about society in general and especailly about the non-gun owning parts of society who desperately want to be able to blame others for their problems... even as they let their kids sit in front of the tube and watch Dragonball Z for 8 hours day) |
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05-03-2002, 12:36 PM | #164 |
Silver Dragon
Join Date: March 4, 2001
Location: Knoxville, TN USA
Age: 60
Posts: 1,641
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I'm not saying that criminals shouldn't be punished. I think the punishment should fit the crime. I have no problem what so ever with the death penalty. I have a real problem with the idea that if someone is labelled a criminal, then he should be locked up forever. After all, if that were the case then some notable people would still be in jail i.e Nelson Mandela, Merle Haggard...etc.
Noble Wolf (love your name btw), you say that only the military and police should have firearms. What about this. You apparently live in Australia, right? What if the country of Indonsia were to hold legal elections and a government was installed that was extremely hostile to Australia, to the point that they attacked your country. Let's us suppose that they invaded and captured the terriotory that you lived in. Would you try to fight back? If so, how would you do it? Would you take up a privately held firearm and defend your country or would you stand by and wait on the Australian Army and retake the area?
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Sir Taliesin<br /><br />Hello... Good bye. |
05-03-2002, 12:38 PM | #165 | |
Dungeon Master
Join Date: April 26, 2002
Location: Gold Coast - Australia
Age: 60
Posts: 64
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Quote:
Now, as for the problems that cause high and violent crime rates, well that my friend IS a totally different ball game to this.
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\'Till the last of my power - Shall I protect Thee\' <img border=\"0\" alt=\"[merlin]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/merlin.gif\" /> <br /><br />\'Till the last of my strength - Shall I defend Thee\' <img border=\"0\" alt=\"[knightsmile]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/knightsmile.gif\" /> <br /><br />\'Till the last of my breath - Shall I long for Thee\' <img border=\"0\" alt=\"[docheart]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/docheart.gif\" /> |
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05-03-2002, 12:44 PM | #166 |
Lord Soth
Join Date: March 5, 2001
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,948
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Elif!!!
Great post man. I'm completely with you!
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\"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.\"<br />-General George Patton (1885-1945)<br /> <br />Member of CLAN HADB<br />Founder of The Anti Clan Coalition |
05-03-2002, 01:00 PM | #167 | |
Dungeon Master
Join Date: April 26, 2002
Location: Gold Coast - Australia
Age: 60
Posts: 64
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Quote:
Firstly,- most regular fighting armies now a days wear some form of body armour, wich tends to stop most "civilian" grade weapons (and if private citizens are ever allowed to own armour defeating weapons then I'm outta here!!)Therefore your privately owned weapons are worth squat against regular front line troops. Secondly, - I hope I don't need to point out your own history to you; in the fact that most western nations in the past have allways supplied fighting weapons (Mgs etc) to their allies/resistance cells in times of need. Therefore any firearm that I could possibly own now, is irrelevant in such circumstance. thanx for noticing the name [ 05-03-2002, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Noble Wolf ]
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\'Till the last of my power - Shall I protect Thee\' <img border=\"0\" alt=\"[merlin]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/merlin.gif\" /> <br /><br />\'Till the last of my strength - Shall I defend Thee\' <img border=\"0\" alt=\"[knightsmile]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/knightsmile.gif\" /> <br /><br />\'Till the last of my breath - Shall I long for Thee\' <img border=\"0\" alt=\"[docheart]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/docheart.gif\" /> |
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05-03-2002, 01:04 PM | #168 | |
Zartan
Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: London, England
Age: 53
Posts: 5,164
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Quote:
To quote Disraeli: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, Damn lies, and statistics." [ 05-03-2002, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: Epona ]
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[img]\"http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/epona.gif\" alt=\" - \" /> |
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05-03-2002, 01:30 PM | #169 | |
Silver Dragon
Join Date: March 4, 2001
Location: Knoxville, TN USA
Age: 60
Posts: 1,641
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Quote:
Firstly,- most regular fighting armies now a days wear some form of body armour, wich tends to stop most "civilian" grade weapons (and if private citizens are ever allowed to own armour defeating weapons then I'm outta here!!)Therefore your privately owned weapons are worth squat against regular front line troops. Secondly, - I hope I don't need to point out your own history to you; in the fact that most western nations in the past have allways supplied fighting weapons (Mgs etc) to their allies/resistance cells in times of need. Therefore any firearm that I could possibly own now, is irrelevant in such circumstance. thanx for noticing the name[/QUOTE]Don't know about Australia, but the body armor the US supplies you with sucks! It's only good for shrapnel. It will not stop a bullet. A police officer is much better protected. However most hunting rifles will penetrate standard body armor. Better start running! In Vietnam, the US Army and Marines armed their snipers with hunting rifles. Snipers were frowned up on in the US military. It wasn't sporting I guess (stupid IMO). Snipers accounted for many causilites in the Vietman War. One man by the name of Carlos Hathcock tied up a whole NVA battalion for an entire day once. He used a Winchester 70 in 30.06, a hunting caliber. There are two books about this guy. Here is a link to Amazon http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/se...848644-7268124 If my memory of history serves me right, most of the weapons the French Resistance had in WWII was captured or stolen from the Germans or were privately help weapons. The Allies didn't start arming the Resistance movements heavily until near the D-Day invasions. During the early part of the war The US, Britain and Australia had a hard time even arming their own armies. The Russians had no where near enough weapons to go around. Most of the time Russian Troops where armed in pairs. One was given a rifle and a loaded stripper clip and the other was given just a loaded stripper clip. They then told him to pick up the rifle after the first soldier was killed. [ 05-03-2002, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Sir Taliesin ]
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Sir Taliesin<br /><br />Hello... Good bye. |
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05-03-2002, 01:40 PM | #170 | |
Drow Warrior
Join Date: April 16, 2002
Location: Connecticut
Age: 40
Posts: 259
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