Useless spells I have known (sarcastic peeve/whine)

[Aerich]

Does it ever seem that quite a few spells are almost totally worthless and, even if they have a use, that other spells are so much more useful?

Take first and second lvl mage spells, for example. If you're not in HoF mode, what use is Chill Touch with its minimal damage and loss of strength? Any tough monster that sticks around for more than two or three rounds (making the loss of strength an actual factor) will have good saving throws and probably will not be affected. Oh, you can make a single undead run away each round if you can hit them with it first? Well unfortunately, you have to touch them to do so, which means you have to be in melee range, which means they can crush your fragile spellcaster. Right, this spell makes Turn Undead redundant...

And what about Laerloch's Minor Drain? Even necromancers can cast Magic Missile, so there's very little point to this spell, except at the very lowest levels when you only get one MM and the HP drain of Laerlochs can actually save your mage's pitiful hide.

Decastave is a little more useful, but it requires your spellcaster to actually hit something in melee combat. Yes sir, that happens all the time. Wouldn't it be better to invest in a Mirror Image so as not to get hit, or a Melf's Acid Arrow to do better (and more reliable) damage? It's not even useful for Fighter/Mages, as any respectable Fighter/Mage will have proficiency or better in a more effective weapon than a staff. Granted there is that tiny window of time in the Vale of Shadows where you may not have magical weapons but need to hit undead that can only be damaged by magical weapons, but really... anyone heard of Agannazar?

I've also never (in just four tries, admittedly) been able to get Ghoul Touch to work. Looks like a cool spell in the description, but if the enemy saves, that's it, one 2nd level spell wasted. At least web affects an area (no problem for us with Rings of Free Action and/or ranged weapons) and can "re-paralyse" on successive rounds if a save is made. Given that there are so few "single massive monster against the whole party" battles, Ghoul Touch is not very useful most of the time, and a big gamble the rest of the time. Better to cast Chromatic Orb; it's quicker, cheaper, and paralyses for a longer duration.

Infravision is even more useless. Most areas are decently lit, and any party made entirely of humans can either fumble around in the semi-dark or drink those too-numerous potions of Infravision.

And don't even get me started on Detect Evil. Why would a mage cast this? Even for role-play purposes it doesn't make much sense. In PnP RPGs, this spell is supposed to be an insult for the person subjected to it (or maybe that's Know Alignment), making them rather hostile. I cast this once in the tavern of Kuldahar, and made Lysan run away. Woo-hoo! The only possible use I can think of for this spell is for Paladins, to make sure that their Smite Evil is actually directed at evil things. Even so, it wouldn't be worth casting if Paladins didn't get it for free.

How about Lightning Bolt? You can't even cast it at the last monster in a line and hit the whole line, because it doesn't do damage until it hits its intended target. Well, cast it at the first in line, you say? All right, but unless you're in an area where the walls are super far apart, that Bolt will ricochet randomly off the walls and most likely do more damage to your party than to the enemy. I've seen it suggested that a good strategy is to send a stealthed thief near a group of enemies, drop an arrow, and target the arrow with Lightning, thus allowing the bolt to bounce around to its heart's content far away from the party. Ok, but unless you're really short of Fireballs and Skull Traps, who's going to do that?

Anyway, there's my rant, kudos to those who read it all the way through =) Feel free to add your own most-disliked spells to the list.

[SpongeLikeCow]

Shocking Grasp is just as dumb as Chill Touch.

Aid is pretty useless. 1-8 extra hitpoints, woohoo!

Spiritual Hammer sucks.

[Mellagar]

The sleep spell for the priest is rather weak, or so I thought it to be. Cast it on a meaner creature and it did nothing. Waste of a slot.

[Aerich]

@ SLC

[Shocking Grasp is just as dumb as Chill Touch.]

I agree. Those touch spells are dangerous for mages, and Shocking Grasp only does about as much damage as MM anyways.

[Aid is pretty useless. 1-8 extra hitpoints, woohoo!]

I couldn't agree more. Why not take Cure Moderate Wounds, which heals 11 HP? As for the Bless effect, why not just cast Bless and get the benefit for the entire party?

[Spiritual Hammer sucks.]

I'm not sure I totally agree with this. It works from a distance, so it's not all bad, especially if you've run out of slingstones. Also, there's a few maces and hammers that give extra spell slots and even a +1 to Wisdom, indirectly granting even more spell slots. The problem with those weapons is that you lose those benefits (the spell slots AND the spells memorized in them) unless the weapon is equipped *at all times.* Once I get those special clerical weapons, I tend to burn a second level slot or two on Magical Hammer for minor battles and ignore my sling. I figure the extra 3rd and 4th level slots are worth the inconvenience. But I suppose I could just run my cleric into melee in all the minor battles instead.

@ Mellagar - I assume you are talking about Command? I agree, it is weak. The only use I ever found for it was when I soloed a cleric (partway). It allowed me to use that round to get close to various archers that could out-missile me. The (admittedly minor) advantage to the spell is that it is one of only a handful of clerical spells with a casting time of 1 (others are Defensive Harmony and Slow Poison, iirc), and probably the only one that is offensive in nature. It helps to disrupt spellcasters, but in any party that includes Magic Missile and Chromatic Orb (e.g. 99.8% of them), Command comes out a distant third. The duration of one round is ridiculous; it doesn't give much of an edge to the caster.

Another thing that annoys me (it annoyed me more before I got HOW and the accompanying scroll cases) is why the Protection from Petrification scoll is in the first mini-dungeon. I've never found a use for it in IWD proper. So why can't they leave a good scroll in that dungeon for us to use? It's a real pain for solo/small parties (whose mages level up quickly) to pound through to Kuldahar without any 2nd level spells but Horror (and Blur, I guess).

[Aerich]

A final slag of Laerloch's Minor Drain [img]smile.gif[/img]

It doesn't get any better with higher levels. You also cannot even kill trolls with it. When a troll is down, Laerloch's does not even register it as an acceptable target. Grrrr. Too bad it can't steal a bit of the abilities of whatever it affects. It would be worth casting if you could get regeneration or poisoning capabilities for a few rounds. Unless you're roleplaying a necromancer, this spell bites. Anyone who's found a use for it, please let me know.

[Roboghost]

1. Laerloch's Minor Drain:

Spell disruption [Saving Throw: None]!

If you have a specialist mage that can't use Magic Missile, then the spell could be vital.

It could also be handy if the mage you're battling cast Shield on him/herself [Magic Missile won't do squat then].

2. Shocking Grasp:

Using a Fighter/Mage: Say you’re fighting it out with a caster of some sort and they are about to cast a spell [Finger of Death, for example]. Shocking Grasp has NO SAVE, so it will disrupt the spell for sure [this spell does 30-38 points of guaranteed damage if you hit mage level 30].

You can also buy a ring in Kuldahar--and that would be its primary purpose for buying it--for a PURE fighter who couldn't obviously cast the spell to save his/her arse from the nasty spell about to lay into them.

[pritchke]

Roboghost has it right. I consider Shocking Grasp to be one of my favorite spells in the game. Espically for Fighter/Mages. Even plain mages can use Shocking Grasp if they are protected by Stone Skin or a mirror image. Vampiric Touch is another good touch spell. When using these spells you should have your mage protected somewhat to give it a better chance of surviving or actually getting to cast it.

Nothing wrong with a good lightning bolt either. I think it depends alot on the strategies you take.

I agree with Infravision and Detect evil as I never use them.

I would say detect traps, or knock is useless if you have a theif, but they are good if you solo or go without a theif in your party. Most spells are decent and some use can be found for them. I never use Ghoul Touch, or Chill Touch either but I would not be surprised if someone got it to work well for them so I will not call them useless for this reason. Some people like Friends, I don't usually waste a slot on it because I find enough gold in the game. Identify is useful but if you have a bard you probaly don't need it.

[ 06-15-2004, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[Aerich]

Dang, I knew I was going to get called on these [img]smile.gif[/img]
I must admit that I wrote that last post when I was P.O.'d that Laerloch's doesn't kill trolls (that would have been so cool...).

1) Laerloch's - true, it's good for spell disruption when the enemy caster has Shield activated. But which enemy mages actually use Shield? I can't recall any off the top of my head (maybe Kontik?). And it's pretty hard to kill (even) a mage using Laerloch's. I'd prefer using Acid Arrow. The really powerful mages all seem to have Globe of Invulnerability anyway, which blocks both Laerloch's and MM and Acid Arrow. I did forget about the possibility of non-evocation-using specialists; I've stuck mostly with the tried and true illusionist-necromancer (or bard) combo.

2) Shocking Grasp - ok, I stand corrected on Fighter/Mage applications, especially if the enemy has Stoneskin going. I suppose you could also wreak havoc with a Mage/Thief or Mage using Improved Invisibility and multiple touch spells. Roboghost, are you sure there's no saving throw? I seem to remember a save for half-damage, but maybe that's my faulty memory. If there's no save, the (slightly) increased damage over MM is somewhat of an advantage. However, I still favour MM over SG, as my mages tend to be mere mortals that top out before lvl 20. I guess I'm locked into mages (other than F/Ms) as being distance-support characters. If you have to use part of a round to walk up close to cast SG, that seems like a waste of time to me. I also like to skimp a little on mages' protection spells in certain areas (Not the Severed Hand!), to get more damage spells.

Shocking Grasp ring for a fighter - agreed. I was talking more about the spell's utility for a mage.

3) Vampiric Touch - much as I tend to avoid combat touch spells in general, this is the one I use most (by a wide margin). This spell was MADE for Fighter/Mages. Or for hard-core gamers playing without a healer. The problem I have with low-level touch spells (as vs. MM) is magic resistance. I seem to have had bad luck with touch spells and resistance/saves (I figure the reward with Vampiric Touch is worth the risk).

4) Lightning Bolt - maybe I'm just too incapable of using this well. Pritchke, HOW do you use this without frying yourself? I've cast it about a dozen times, and ended up hitting a "friendly" about 2/3 of the time. The length of the bolt really causes me some problems. I also don't seem to be able to hit more than one or two enemies at a time with it (as even the "static" enemies often move a little), which is not a really good trade off considering my innate lightning rod qualities.

5) Friends - my only use for this is to buy a kickin' magical weapon or item earlier in the game ::cough,cough, Horn of Valhalla:: [img]smile.gif[/img]

6) Detect Traps, Knock, Detect Evil, Infravision, Identify - agree. Useless if you have characters with duplicate abilities, helpful (some more than others) when the party lacks in those areas.

[Aerich]

Quick correction -

I probably rubbed some feathers the wrong way by labelling a few spells as useless and naming this the "Useless spells" thread (although that was meant as somewhat of an attention-getting tag). Note that I qualified that statement in the first post by saying "mostly useless" or of much less utility than other spells of the same level.

Some further notes... I should probably CMA even more by saying that the spells I'm cutting down may be much improved if playing with fewer characters. For instance, I bet Burning Hands is a lot easier and better to use than MM when playing solo.

Lightning Bolt - just a thought, maybe this is how pritchke uses it...
Using an invisible (preferably Improved I) character to scout out the enemy, drink potion of electrical resistance (or whatever it's called), and purposely casting LB (or more than one) in tight spaces. I imagine this spell is better with fewer (and less vulnerable) characters available to hit. I think I'd still prefer the predictability of Fireball and Skull Trap, though.

Question on Potions of Insulation (50% elec resistance). Do you get 100% resistance if you drink two? If so, maybe I should use them instead of selling them [img]smile.gif[/img]

[AuraMancer]

Where do you sell your potions?

I can't sell them at Orric th Gray(sp?), nor at the shop that buys gems and also not at the smith?