Is there life after 'Good Versus Evil'?

[K T Ong]

It would seem that in well nigh every PC game, novel, film and TV program nowadays, the story has come to follow a very simple, basic formula: Good Versus Evil. Star Wars, LOTR, James Bond, He-Man, Ninja Turtles, Power Rangers, Pokemon, Dragonball, Robert Jordan's 'Wheel of Time', Stephen Donaldson's 'Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever', Diablo, Wizardry... It's all the same kind of story -- and it honestly does get a bit wearisome for me in this respect...

What do you think? Is it possible to have a good and interesting story that isn't about Good Versus Evil? Particularly in the fantasy genre?

On another level, what do you understand to be the true nature of evil? Do you picture 'evil' as something with a real, positive existence, perhaps some kind of dark force which is actively hostile towards human life? (This would seem to me the favorite account of all fantasy novelists.)

I have my own answers to these questions, but for now how about sharing yours?

[Calaethis Dragonsbane]

yes, Im sure there are lots of stories out there, where most chars are 'grey'. I just cant name any off hand. power rangers good? I always thought they were jerks...

[K T Ong]

Originally posted by Calaethis Dragonsbane: yes, Im sure there are lots of stories out there, where most chars are 'grey'. I just cant name any off hand.

How about Emily Bronte's Wuthering Heights or Thomas Hardy's Tess of the Dubervilles? Okay, I know they're not fantasy (though there are hints of the supernatural in the former), but you get what I mean...

[Neb]

PlaneScape: Torment wasn't entirely Good vs Evil

The main villain had an understandable motivation that wasn't as much evil as just not really caring. He didn't want the main character to feel pain, but it was necessary.

Plus, it could be a battle of Evil vs Evil. Or Neutral vs Evil. You could play something besides Good.

Same thing in Fallout 2. You could choose to just say: "f*ck it" to the main quest and let everyone die while you got rich, perhaps as a slaver, or something else.

There are quite a few games that are more a sort of Evil vs Evil. Everyone is equally unscrupulous and uncaring about those in their way.

Originally posted by K T Ong: What do you think? Is it possible to have a good and interesting story that isn't about Good Versus Evil? Particularly in the fantasy genre?

What about “The Last English king” by Julian rathbone, which is a novelisation of the rise to power of Harold, and his defeat by willy the conqueror in the battle of Hastings, It’s not exactly fantasy although of course some bits had to be fictionalised, and it is set in a swords and big sticks time.
But in it, both sides are shown as the people they really were,
They both rape, loot and pillage, and it’s the ordinary people who suffer.
There’s no overt good or evil, just people behaving like people.

Originally posted by K T Ong: On another level, what do you understand to be the true nature of evil? Do you picture 'evil' as something with a real, positive existence, perhaps some kind of dark force which is actively hostile towards human life? (This would seem to me the favorite account of all fantasy novelists.)

There's only people, and what they do, how we judge it, creates good and evil.

I think an evil vs evil film might be good though I can't think of any I've seen.

Even the Maverick cop films are generally good/neutral vs evil

[caleb]

Most gangster films are evil vs evil.

[khazadman]

well a two hour movie about how two countries that just get along so nicely is not exactly going to be a block buster.people want movies(action anyway)to have conflict,and good vs evil is the way to go.

[K T Ong]

To khazadman:

It may be possible to have the two (or more) camps interacting with each other, with some members from both sides loving each other. others hating each other, and so on. This would make for a much more complex and interesting story than just plain good vs. evil, yeah?

And friends, it seems we're still using the vocabulary of good and evil if we talk about evil vs. evil, or neutral vs. evil, etc. In any case, I'm glad the Zodiac doesn't have only two signs, the Angel and the Devil, but has twelve signs altogether, which certainly would make for a much more colorful kaleidoscope of human reality.

Originally posted by caleb: Most gangster films are evil vs evil.

Good point. Ghost Dog comes close to this. Maybe The Godfather films too