I've got no class.

[Sazerac]

Originally posted by Aelia Jusa: Well I agree with Mel that it's very disrespectful of the whole class not to show up, especially if it happens often. When you're in a class of twenty or more then it's not so bad I think if a few people don't come occasionally, but if you know there's only four people in the class the least you can do is come [img]graemlins/idontagreeatall.gif[/img] . At uni the buzz is always you don't have to be here, just know that it's much harder to pass if you don't come, and the lecturers/tutors won't help you catch up if you just don't show up. But that's with classes of a hundred or more. I remember my philosophy tutorial in first year, it was at 9am - apparently that's early for some people , and there'd usually be me and at most two other students there (out of fifteen). I could tell the tutor found it annoying, and I did too because philosophy tutorials especially are about discussion and different points of view. Maybe you could have a system where 10% or so of their grade is participation - coming to lectures and being active in them. Some of my classes do that and it seems to work, at least there are more students there when there's grades riding on it than when it's purely optional.

Well, attendance is pretty mandatory at our academy. You miss 7 class hours, your grade drops 1 letter grade, regardless of what it was originally. You miss 11 class hours or more, you get an "F" and have to retake the course. On top of that, class participation is 10% of the grade.

I must admit I've never had a group this bad before. Most people at least *try*, and it's not like it's the first time I've ever taught this class (it's A+ Computer Repair, you'd think they'd LOVE it, but no, it's a class full of deadbeats who are there only to pick up a subsistence check and bilk the system...well, that's not going to work. I am going to be talking with some of the TRC counselors (Texas Rehabilitation Commission) since they are paying the way of a lot of these students to come to class.

Now some of them have some legitimate problems, like living 15 miles out in the boonies and their car has broken down. Sometimes they have to drop out and tend to their "RL" issues and then come back in another session. (Our classes and sessions only go for 6 weeks at a time, attending all days). But for those who don't come because they *can't get out of bed in the morning*, that's going to stop. I actually had one come in an HOUR LATE one morning last week, slump into class, and fall asleep at the desk while we were working and begin SNORING! I'm glad to say that I didn't have time to do anything about it, because before I could turn and reprimand him, he got a rather nasty poke in the ribs from one of his peers sitting behind him.

Sad thing is, I have to put up with these clowns for three hours (8:30 to 11:30) each morning. There's less than 2 weeks left to this session, and they're supposed to take the hardware portion of the A+ exam on the first Friday in May as their final exam. I can already predict that none of them will pass, because none of them have done the work or put forth the effort that will bring them to a level to where they are capable of passing. I hate to say it, but I'm pretty well washing my hands of them after this. I will continue to teach them what I can, but if they're not interested in learning, there's only so much I can do. There's no way I'm going to get any silk purses out of that bunch of old sow's ears. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

*whew* Ok, rant mode over. At least my afternoon classes are worth their weight in gold...those students CARE about their future and appreciate being taught new things.

Cheers,
-Saz

[Black Knight]

I was in Education at one time, too, Saz...there's a saying about bringing a horse to water but not being able to make him drink....the hardest lesson I had to learn was having to Flunk a student...

BK

[Ryanamur]

Saz, I'm relieved to see you didn't get fire (I've got no class). How to deal with your student. Sit them down next time they're in and have an "mano to mano" discussion with them. Since those students are deadbeat, they are usually put down and have a very low self esteem which leads to a "I don't give a s***" attitude. That's what you need to break.

Now, I know you for a very intelligent man who's good a reading people. When you say that none of them will pass, do you say that because none of them have put the work in or none of them have the skills to succeed in PC repair? If they don't have the skills, don't waste your time, you only have 6 more hours of teaching.

However, should one (or more of them) have the skills, tell them outright that they have the skills to succeed and you know it. That they would be great at it if they applied themselves. But that unfortunately, you will be forced to flunk them if they don't get the crap together (give as much positive reinforcement as you need to break that carelessness attitude). You might want to review the learning material with the "good one(s)" prior to the exam. Essentially giving them a second chance to prove themselves (you never know, you might change one of their lives)

Hope this helps you.

Hang in there! [img]smile.gif[/img]

EDIT: if they really don't want to learn, flunk them and follow LoA advice (evil) (end of evil)

[ 04-22-2002, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: Ryanamur ]

My Government instructor gave a lecture this morning.
His topics...EDUCATION...GETTING A DEGREE...RESPONSIBILITY...FAILURE...SUCCESS...DRUG S & ALCOHOL.
Get an education...without it you'll get nowhere.
Get the degree...without it you'll get nowhere.
Be responsible enough to attend your classes and be there on time...if you don't, you run the risk of failing the course or getting dropped, requiring that you take it again & pay for it again. If a lack of responsibility is getting in your way do something to fix it NOW before it becomes an endless cycle...it won't get you anywhere.
Accept failure as an opportunity to learn from your mistakes...never give up, it doesn't get you anywhere.
Work hard for your success, you have to because no one is going to hand it to you...make a goal of bettering your present position in life so that you can get somewhere with it (better job, job security, more money, financial security, etc)
Don't do drugs and don't drink alcohol in excess...if you let these things run your life, you aren't going to get anywhere.

I say set strict guidelines for your students being responsible enough to make it to class and to learn what they are there for.
Don't be afraid to drop or fail the absolute deadbeats, it is your responsibility to show them that taking on responsibility is a serious issue not just in school but in life.
If anyone needs to talk to you one on one, be there for them if they want some help in order to pass...not with leniency and grade curves though...make them learn and earn their grade!

[Lifetime]

Well actually whenever students make plans to do something together like everyone not turning up to class, it usually means they dont like the class, or the teacher. I dont mean any offence Saz (you're great!) but whenever me and my classmates dont like a certain class or teacher we always end up scheming and plotting on ways to show that. And you'd really need a united effort to make a sizeable impression, thus the need for the entire class to get in on something..
Thats just a theory anyway..

[Avatar]

Okay sorry for the late reply.. to respectful Cloudy and Saz [img]smile.gif[/img]
really no offence here as I love u guys [img]smile.gif[/img] *hugs*

Don't be under the impression that I am rude or I don't take my education seriously otherwise I would not be in Cambridge University and I would not have friends like some of u on net. But I will not have teachers make fun of my education. We are not idiots, hand picked from all over the world. We know when to goto a lecture and when to go to the library. Believe we've tried, some do goto all of them with a big smile on their faces and good for them.

If a large number of students don't turn up, especially at a good Uni the something is wrong! No one's fault maybe, but if individuals and many many small groups make all the same decision of not attending lectures they've payed for and these are intelligent individuals then I wouldn't keep going like that.

Unfortunately one of my major course lectures is really bad....

Now it has to be agreed that if an entire class makes a decision not to go they have a reason! the lesson is not important enough, right or wrong. That much has to be true.

[caleb]

Maybe there was a concert?

[Argus]

A friend of mine who teaches adults at a night school uses the following incentive for attendance. She claims that it reinforces the idea that education creates more opportunities in life.

Say the next test has 20 questions on it. Those with perfect attendance get a test with 25 questions on it and can choose which 20 to answer. Those with non-perfect records merely are given the test with 20 questions and have to answer all of them. Therefore those who have missed classes are not afforded as many options to succeed as those who have made an effort and made it to class every day.

She has also done the same in terms of how much time each student has to finish a given exam/project/papers. Those with perfect attendance (i.e., have invested time in the class) get more time to finish exams/projects/papers (i.e., a higher return on their investment).

Hang in there Sazerac and best of luck to you! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Attalus]

Avatar, I believe that you are comparing apples and oranges. To compare students at Cambridge to students at a disability-funded computer repair course would be just that. I am sure that these bozos are just lazy and that they had no collusion. If they had that kind of organizational skill, they woouldn't be in a vocational training course in the first place. I agree that you should just penalize their grade and forget it, Saz. (Remembers in college when the prof didn't show up and how happy we would be. As I recall, you had to wait 5 minutes for a teaching asssistant, 10 for an assistant professor, and 15 for an Associate or Full professor.)

[Avatar]

Originally posted by Attalus: Avatar, I believe that you are comparing apples and oranges. To compare students at Cambridge to students at a disability-funded computer repair course would be just that. I am sure that these bozos are just lazy and that they had no collusion. If they had that kind of organizational skill, they woouldn't be in a vocational training course in the first place. I agree that you should just penalize their grade and forget it, Saz. (Remembers in college when the prof didn't show up and how happy we would be. As I recall, you had to wait 5 minutes for a teaching asssistant, 10 for an assistant professor, and 15 for an Associate or Full professor.)

yeah I am aren't I? sawwweeee, but yeahhhh u should either talk about this problem, give them choc bars or just crush their grades.