Morality in the American Presidency

[Ronn_Bman]

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Originally posted by jabidas:
The US government has, does and will continue to impose their wills on other countrys. Frequently its just economics but hey I suppose its only towelheads and other non white middleaged voters so who cares. But I suppose americans know sod all about what their government does. They dont care about elected governments torn down, left wing peoples crushed or anything that dosnt help the dollar.

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Government verging on evil? I think that's a bit of an overstatement.

I'm a white middle-aged voter and I have always cared. Do you think you have more knowledge about what the US government does than American's? Do you think we all sit around eating at McDonald's oblivious to the world around US?

So you have special knowledge about how the CIA covers up? How did you come by such knowledge? Are you privy to high level international intelligence, or do you just assume?

Yes you can look back at US history and find lots of examples of bad things (just like you could with any nation), but you could find examples of good things too, but no ones interested in that. The US is bad (verging on evil) and only the things which prove this point matter?

[Ronn_Bman]

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Originally posted by jabidas:

What a great policeman of the world eh?

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The funny part is that when nations need our help they love US.

[Sir Taliesin]

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Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:


The funny part is that when nations need our help they love US.

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How would like to be in the CIA? They are bashed by Americans for not doing enough and bashed by the woorld for doing to much. They can't win for losing!

BTW Jadidas, we are not evil! If that were the case, no one would want to come here, and we all know that is not the case. If we are so evil, how come whenever something happens in the world, everyone want's to know when we are going to do something. How come we lend the most money in the world to poor nations around the world, and feed the hungry, knowing full well we won't be paid back!

Yeah, I guess we are pretty evil alright. EVIL, EVIL, EVIL that us. Mr. Evil.

[jabidas]

What is funny is I brought in documented facts from amnesty international and people refuse to believe, ha ha ha, no that's not funny at all more of an ostrich with its head in the ground. Oh and BTW involvement all over the word covertly by America has been proved many times, ask most banana republics and oil rich countries.

Next I didn't say the american people were evil, actually I made this clear on several occasions in my earlier post, but anyway, my problem is with the american govt. I just wish you people would read the whole thread.

Taliesin Im sure any country receiving aid from the US loves it because you would have to be an idiot not to do so, that and if you don't go with the propaganda you get shat on. Oh and frequently countries like Chile would not like their democratically elected governments torn down. That and please spare a thought for all those countries like Iraq and up until recently North korea who werent allowed trade with the rest of the world. Here's an interesting fact, 500 children from iraq die every month because of the trade embargoes.

I in fact do no a lot about the US government and the tools it uses, I make a point of studying it so please don't assume Im making it up because im not American. Anyone who wants to find out about the C.I.A can its not nearly as hard as you would imagine.


Next sure other countries are guilty of lots of things but hey no one ever had their hands in as many pies as the US did, I mean Larry has already slung mud at my country, and fair enough it was true so I slung some more, but at least it only happened in Ireland, we didn't bring it anywhere else, unless you count england but that's a sort of different thing to what we were talking about. America goes every where.

Ronn Bmann , not everybody loves the idea of the US army showing up, far from it, perhaps finding out about more than what the propaganda camera tells you would be a good idea.

[Ronn_Bman]

quote:

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Originally posted by jabidas:
What is funny is I brought in documented facts from amnesty international and people refuse to believe, ha ha ha, no that's not funny at all more of an ostrich with its head in the ground. Oh and BTW involvement all over the word covertly by America has been proved many times, ask most banana republics and oil rich countries.

Next I didn't say the american people were evil, actually I made this clear on several occasions in my earlier post, but anyway, my problem is with the american govt. I just wish you people would read the whole thread.

Taliesin Im sure any country receiving aid from the US loves it because you would have to be an idiot not to do so, that and if you don't go with the propaganda you get shat on. Oh and frequently countries like Chile would not like their democratically elected governments torn down. That and please spare a thought for all those countries like Iraq and up until recently North korea who werent allowed trade with the rest of the world. Here's an interesting fact, 500 children from iraq die every month because of the trade embargoes.

I in fact do no a lot about the US government and the tools it uses, I make a point of studying it so please don't assume Im making it up because im not American. Anyone who wants to find out about the C.I.A can its not nearly as hard as you would imagine.


Next sure other countries are guilty of lots of things but hey no one ever had their hands in as many pies as the US did, I mean Larry has already slung mud at my country, and fair enough it was true so I slung some more, but at least it only happened in Ireland, we didn't bring it anywhere else, unless you count england but that's a sort of different thing to what we were talking about. America goes every where.

Ronn Bmann , not everybody loves the idea of the US army showing up, far from it, perhaps finding out about more than what the propaganda camera tells you would be a good idea.

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I do watch quite a bit more than the US propaganda machine. I read most news magazines online and I find the BBC very insightful. I didn't say everyone loves to see our army coming, but frequently they do because they want something. I also don't doubt the CIA has involved itself with some terrible people, but because they train people doesn't mean they train them to rape. Interesting that the suspected US operative from the article stopped the rape.

500 Iraqi children a month because of the embargo? That's not an interesting idea, it's an untrue assumption! Anyway, the last I heard it was a UN embargo, and the embargo is not against humanitarian aid. Through the embargo, the UN determines what they can buy. Food and medical supplies are not blocked. In addition to violating most of the conditions that ended the Gulf the Iraqis are constantly trying to selling illegal oil (remember the freighter last month that sank?), but do you think they spend any of that illegal cash on the hungry?

There are two sides to every propoganda machine. You might want to check out a variety of news sources yourself .

[jabidas]

500 was a fact before september the 11th and I got that from a Muslim source. Fact, not an assuption and it was from a respeted source. I meant beyond what the west churns out.

The UN is nothing but a moral face to western Econmic domination by military strength.

That guy might have stopped the rape but it was because she was american. The other women would not be nearly so lucky, and one person must speak for many in these things, if only because everyone else is dead.

[Ronn_Bman]

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Originally posted by jabidas:
500 was a fact before september the 11th and I got that from a Muslim source. Fact, not an assuption and it was from a respeted source. I meant beyond what the west churns out.

The UN is nothing but a moral face to western Econmic domination by military strength.

That guy might have stopped the rape but it was because she was american. The other women would not be nearly so lucky, and one person must speak for many in these things, if only because everyone else is dead.

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Not to disrespect your source, but the fact that it was a Muslim source doesn't make it any more important credible than if it was Christain, Jewish, or Buddist. Don't you don't think the anti-US groups in the Middle East create their own propaganda? Or is anything negative said about the US obviously true because we are monsters?

You don't think Saddam would say anything to further his own causes (which obviously don't include caring for his nation's people)? He isn't having any trouble feeding his army and keeping military aircraft in the sky, maybe he's giving the food to those he thinks are more important.

Of course, if Iraq would have allowed the UN weapon inspections they agreed to, they might not be under any embargo at all. Our fault? Not really.

Economic domination by military force? The last time I looked we weren't using our army to force anyone anywhere to buy or sell anything. The UN is the moral face of the west? Surely we can do better than than that...lol.

Back to the story from AI, even if I accept the fact he was American (based the few sentances in English he spoke), the fact that he was CIA, and the fact he only stopped the rape because she was a US citizen (I did find it interesting the only decent thing done in the story was by an American), it still doesn't mean the US trained anyone to rape.

People do train at our schools, and I have no doubt they learn some wicked stuff, but I seriously doubt they teach "Nun Rape 101". What people do with the skills they are taught is really up to them isn't it? Is the US responsible for every terrible act perpitrated by anyone who went to any US school? There are terrible people all over the world who abuse authority and take any chance they get to hurt others. Obviously, these aren't the people the US government should associate with, but you'll find them in every walk of life.

BTW, my jab at you earlier about "expanding" your information sources was in retaliation to your similar comment about me . It was made in fun, and I hope it didn't offend you. I did, however, want you to keep in mind that just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they're "blind" to the world around them [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

[AzureWolf]

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Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:


Back to the story from AI, even if I accept the fact he was American (based the few sentances in English he spoke), the fact that he was CIA, and the fact he only stopped the rape because she was a US citizen (I did find it interesting the only decent thing done in the story was by an American), it still doesn't mean the US trained anyone to rape.

[ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

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This one thing I have a problem with Ronn, it was not in any way meant to BE a decent thing he did. The only reason that he stopped it in the first place was because she was a US citizen and could have caused trouble. This was the reason he stopped it not because he felt bad and he should stand up for the poor woman.

[Larry_OHF]

The action of one fool or one group of fools does not condemn a nation.

Whether it really happened or not...as Ronn stated eariler...we are not training our people to rape anyone!

That is what this thread has turned into accusing us of in several threads.

[Cloudbringer]

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Originally posted by Lord of Alcohol:
Things have gotten a bit off track from the original subect havent they? We went from Jimmy Carter to America is evil. So I will give my opinion of Jimmy Carter- I think he was NOT a good President. While he did somehow win the election he never gained the full confidence of the people. I fully realise he meant well but that is not what is required to be a President of a country. He commanded a nuclear submarine, but could not command a nation. Politics dont allow nice guys. The Iran situation showed that. My dad was in Iran right before the hostages were taken ( he came home for christmas-was told not to go back). Carter was completely indesisive. I have to say he is a great AFTER_President, but he was not a good President while in office

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Thanks, LoA! I'm pretty tired of America bashing fests these days. Let's bash Taiwan, or Fiji, or China, or England or Australia.. yah.. let's bash Aussies.. oh MEMSYKINS!!!

Cloudy- and for the benefit of anyone new to IW or my posting.. I'm JOKING!