CREATING A NEW PARTY !!!

[tvlad]

I have to say, that making a party for this game was quite a challenge, since i wasn't used to that many classes.Keeping in mind my Might and Magic experience this is my party :

Dracon Fighter
Felpurr Samurai
Human Ninja
Human Psionic
Faerie Mage
Dwarf Priest

All characters, except the dracon are those that come with the game.

I'd like to know 3 things :

1)If this is a good party
2)What changes should i make to it
3)How to distribute skill points, because i searched the net, but i'm quite confused about this, especially about placing the skill points for the magic characters, because all of them have fire/earth/water/wind magic.

At the present time i'm in Arnika, but i feel i placed the skill points kinda strange and i'm thinking of starting again, but this time i want to do it the right way [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 07-09-2003, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: tvlad ]

[Ziggurat]

Your party is better than average.

I haven't done much with Psionics, only pumped up the ability to get Cure Insanity and Haste. I've heard they can do well. (One of my cats decided to read my manual in secret, so I can't look things up like spell lists right now).

You may also want to change the faerie Mage to a Ninja later if you want to take advantage of the best weapon in the game. Look at the min stats required for Ninja and see if that is what you want to do later, and decide what lev to make the switch. The dwarf Priest may want to switch to Lord later, with the same advice as the Mage. A dwarf Priest is good at first as he has damage resistance and learns the Divinity spells quickly (not as fast as an elf or faerie, of course).

I haven't tried your configuration. I have a feeling it will work fine if you can get up to lev 11 or so. You have 3 pure casters so it will be a bit difficult to get through some melees but some people have done it with all magic. It seems challenging for locks and traps as your Ninja will have to do all, but I am doing that now. Keeps your lock picks handy and learn knock knock.

I liked a Bard and Valkerie or Lord starting out. Tried a Samurai but wasn't impressed (at first, but they get better after level 12). But everyone has their own style. Good luck!

[ChaosTheorist]

I have to say, that making a party for this game was quite a challenge, since i wasn't used to that many classes.Keeping in mind my Might and Magic experience this is my party : Dracon Fighter Felpurr Samurai Human Ninja Human Psionic Faerie Mage Dwarf Priest All characters, except the dracon are those that come with the game. I'd like to know 3 things : 1)If this is a good party

Sure. When it comes down to it, there are relatively few "bad" parties in Wiz8. Different parties will require different stragegies, and some can be quite a bit more difficult than others, but almost any party can be "good".

2)What changes should i make to it

"Should" make? None. "Might consider"?

1. Ninjas are not really beginner characters. The Ninja skill and bonus structure makes them more demanding than the other classes, they level up on the slowest scale, and they take quite a bit longer than other classes to really start carrying their share of the load. You might get more enjoyment and less hassle with a Mook Ranger in place of the Ninja, and you keep the Alchemist-book coverage.

2. If you swap out the Ninja, you'll want someone else with Locks & Traps. It pains me to say it (since it's one of my favorite classes), but booting the Samurai for a Rogue would make the most sense. You've already got the Mage book covered and, at least in this party, the Samurai would be very much a front-line hacker/slasher, with the Mage-book magic almost an afterthought. So trade in the hybrid for a dedicated hacker/slasher who can also pick locks.

3)How to distribute skill points, because i searched the net, but i'm quite confused about this, especially about placing the skill points for the magic characters, because all of them have fire/earth/water/wind magic.

Yeah, that can take some getting used to. Some basic guidelines:

1. For primary casters, the key attribute is INT; raise it as high as you can when creating the character, and raise it 3 points every level-up until it gets to 95 (there's a "freebie" location/event/puzzle fairly early in the game that will give +5 INT to each character; you'll recognize it when you see it). Getting Power Cast early is the path to happiness for a primary caster. Raise other attributes that will help the caster do his/her job: SPD and DEX are always good, SEN helps a Psionic, etc. WRT skills, maximize the Mastery skill (Alchemy, Divinity, etc.) at creation and at level-up time. I usually don't put points into the Realm skills (Fire, Earth, Mental, etc.) at all; you can build them up just fine with practice. If you want, put 1 point into each Realm during creation or during the first/second level-up just to get them above zero. You may want to build up the Throw skill of some of your casters, especially the Psionic and Priest; these classes can't cast Summon Elemental, and there are places in the game where it's really handy to have lots of people who can either summon help or reliably throw a Canned Elemental at the opposition.

2. For primary floggers, STR is key (and you want Power Strike as soon as you can get it), with DEX and SPD right behind. DEX will help raise the hit percentage, while SPD will raise the number of hit attempts. Skill-wise, raise the character's primary weapon skill, plus whatever other skills make sense for your planned equipment load-out. Dual Weapons is a given for the Lord, Samurai, and Rogue; it's optional for the Fighter, depending on what weapons you do or don't find. Critical Strike is good for the classes that have it.

3. Whether you keep the Ninja or trade in for a Ranger, that character's primary function in this party is going to be as a ranged killer, so build DEX, SPD, and SEN, along with Throw+Critical Strike for a Ninja or Bow+Ranged Combat for the Ranger (Ranged Combat is the Ranger's Critical Strike skill--it raises the chance of getting an Instant Kill when attacking with a ranged weapon).

One comment on using the pre-built sample characters that come with the game: they tend to have their attributes and skills somewhat "diluted" compared to what you'd build yourself. For example, consider the pre-built Psionic:
Stat-Tempus-What I'd Build
STR - 45 - 45
INT - 67 - 67
PIE - 57 - 45
VIT - 50 - 53
DEX - 45 - 45
SPD - 45 - 57
SEN - 66 - 63

Differences:
PIE - means very little in this game; the points are better used elsewhere
VIT - if you're going to raise it above the default, raise it enough to pick up an extra hit point. Especially for the Psionic, who is very limited in what armor can be worn.
SPD - the Psionic is a character you want to be casting before the opposition, either offensively (Insanity, Silence, Pandemonium) or defensively (Soul Shield, Eye for an Eye); more SPD -> more Initiative -> earlier action

There are lots of ways to do things in Wiz8, and almost all of them are fun. Enjoy!

[Ziggurat]

Thanks, CT. Some people really have a handle on this stuff...

[tvlad]

What race should i choose for a ranger, because i looked and i'm not sure that the default ranger (the one that comes with the game) is the best choice, a human one would be much better, because the begining stats are about the same, but the human has more bonus points.Hmm, i think a hobbit will be much better :

50
50
30
65
60
65

So i think i'll replace my ninja with a ranger, but is a rogue really better than a samurai (with the bloodlust sword), especially if i want him to be in the front line ????.

Piety isn't useful even for priests ?????

From your experience, for the characters i chose, are there better races and smth else, i'd still like to put some points into fire/earth/water/wind magic, but on which should i specialize, because i read that not all are that usefull for a mage or a psionic.....

I'm thinking of choosing an elf for my priest, instead of a dwarf, and i'll definitely choose a lizard figther over a dracon one.I chose the dracon because it looked cool and it had breath acid, but the lizard fighter is definitely better.

Am i missing any really usefull spells by not having an alchemist in the party ?
I didn't choose an alchemist in the party, because i thought it would just do potions, i had no idea that earth magic is his specialty.

[ 07-09-2003, 05:26 AM: Message edited by: tvlad ]

[ChaosTheorist]

What race should i choose for a ranger, because i looked and i'm not sure that the default ranger (the one that comes with the game) is the best choice, a human one would be much better, because the begining stats are about the same, but the human has more bonus points.Hmm, i think a hobbit will be much better :

If you build your own Ranger, here's what you end up with for the last 3 attributes (which are the important ones for a shooting Ranger):
Stat - Hobbit - Mook - Human
DEX - 65 - 67 - 62
SPD - 60 - 49 - 54
SEN - 65 - 69 - 64

IOW, there's not that much difference, though the Mook will be slower than the Hobbit. There is, however, a development later in the game that makes it nice to have the Mook, though again not critical. Bottom line, either will work fine. The Human gives up enough DEX and SEN relative to the other two (and doesn't get enough of it back in SPD) that I'd eliminate Human from the choices.

So i think i'll replace my ninja with a ranger, but is a rogue really better than a samurai (with the bloodlust sword), especially if i want him to be in the front line ????.

If you replace the Ninja, you have no one with Lock & Traps. There are a *lot* of locks on Dominus, and a lot of trapped chests. Only 3 locks are "must open" plot controllers, but there are plenty of goodies inside trapped chests or behind locked doors. The Samurai->Rogue swap is the cheapest way to get back Lock & Traps while keeping a strong melee character. Plus, you can swipe stuff from NPCs.

Piety isn't useful even for priests ?????

Useful/Nice to have? Sure. Mandatory/I'll suffer if I don't have it? Nope. Isn't that odd?

From your experience, for the characters i chose, are there better races and smth else, i'd still like to put some points into fire/earth/water/wind magic, but on which should i specialize, because i read that not all are that usefull for a mage or a psionic.....

Your race/class combos are fine. Well, except the Dwarf Priest. It's the Piety thing again. In reality, Piety doesn't count for that much, and INT is the single most important attribute for a primary caster; the Dwarf INT value is, to put it kindly, unimpressive. I'd make the Priest an Elf. Put max creation points into INT, DEX, and SPD, then push INT and SPD every level-up.

If you're reading the "how to develop magic users" stuff from the Jandrall site, take it as useful context information, but *not* as gospel. All Realms are at least somewhat useful to all classes (well, except the non-existent Alchemist/Mental link). And the Jandrall pages seem to completely overlook the fact that you don't have to put skill points into the Realm skills to build them; you build them by practice. Example: buy Books of Healing for Alchemist and Psionic casters, and have them build their Divine skill by healing the rest of the party after combat. By the time your Psionic caster is able to cast Soul Shield and Might to Magic, the skill will easily support casting them at decent power levels. Same for the Alchemist caster summoning an Elemental. As mentioned earlier, I typically don't put points into the Realm skills at all.

Am i missing any really usefull spells by not having an alchemist in the party ? I didn't choose an alchemist in the party, because i thought it would just do potions, i had no idea that earth magic is his specialty.

If you take either the Ninja or the Ranger, then you *do* have an Alchemist caster. In terms of pure high-level ass-kicking horsepower, the Alchemist book is the strongest magic in the game. But the extreme firepower comes later in the game, and a hybrid caster usually won't get there at all. But there's plenty of value in the mid-range spells, and your Ninja/Ranger will be able to cast them just fine.

The other nice thing about having an Alchemist type along is that it gives you literally unlimited funds. Once the character's Alchemy skill reaches 15, you can start mixing potions together to produce stuff that is worth more than the ingredients cost. As the Alchemy skill increases, you get to where you can mix stuff that's worth a *lot* more. Details are available in eariler posts. Or you can just try mixing anything with everything, and see what works. If you get a "can't be" error on the attempt, those item's can't be mixed; if the error is " can't", that means they can, but you need a higher Alchemy skill--try again later. And lots of mixing will raise Alchemy faster than anything else.

[tvlad]

Well, if what i learned from MM holds true here, the fact that i can make money with the alchemist isn't that important, because i'll have more than enough money during the mid to end game, in the beginning it'll be a bit though, but afterwards i don't think so.
About the potions he can make, at least in MM until you could make the black potions and discover the combination, u had plenty of money to buy all the potions your heart could desire, so my druid choice wasn't that inspired.

I think i'll go with my original party, changing only the race of some characters, though i'm not sure if i should make my ninja a fellpur or a hobbit.On one side, the fellpur seems a more natural chocie for a ninja + it has some magical resistances, on the other hand the hobbit has better stats (but a hobbit ninja, kinda of strange ), as someone said, you can explain his criticals if you take into account its height

About the mage, human or faerie ???, the faerie seems really nice (though she has low STR and hp )

[ 07-10-2003, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: tvlad ]

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

I've tried a lot of different parties and have read or requested a lot of different advice. I'm really starting to think (mostly with fighter classes) that they all suck, except for the fighter! Now I'm going to get it, right?
Well, can you really blame me when my 3 Samurai' and 2 Rangers are Lvl 8 and I can count their number of critical hits on one hand; maybe 8 at best. What a bunch of crap! Yes, I've been developing their skills as I should be. That's why I did all the reading and asking questions.
Y'all feel free to "shoot me down" but I know it's been said more than once. By this this lvl I should easily be seeing more criticals than I am.

Then you have the whole issue of where to put the few points you have. Hey, it says the fighter needs Intelligence! Oh, Gee, Now I gotta put points into Int. Dex. Spd. Str. and Vit. hmm I only have 6 points where am I going to put them.

It almost seems like I was doing better when I was more ignorant.

[tvlad]

Yup Variol, ignorance is a BLISS (at least sometimes )

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

Thanks CT! That was some of the most informative posts I've seen so far. I could just never quite get it.
I even have the strategy guide and I think it just confused me. Like with the Samurai, it says to build up (from top to bottom) Int, Dex, Spd, Str, and Vit.
I'm pretty sure this is not the order you would use, right?
Should I just ignore this part of the book; Pg 8, for those who have it?

[ 07-10-2003, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: Variol (Farseer) Elmwood ]