Ramblings regarding damage resistances

[Jim]

I've been thinking about the categories of physical damage resistance:

Crushing
Slashing
Piercing
Missile

Missile weapons deal out piercing damage. One can assume that missile has a seperate category to piercing so that a monster can become immune to arrows/bolts/bullets/throwing weapons etc, but still remain vulnerable to melee piercing attacks (from spears/halberds/short swords/daggers etc), which makes sense.

It seems to be the case that a creature with 100% piercing resistance but no resistance to missile weapons is actually immune to missile weapons anyway (the Mustard Jelly is a fine example of this)

Consider the following situations:

A fighter is wielding the Defender of Easthaven +3. He has gained 20% resistance to slashing, crushing and piercing (but not missile). Missile weapons will however do 80% of full damage due to the piercing modifier. Now consider this:

A level 19 Barbarian is wielding the DoE +3. He naturally has 20% resistance to all 4 caterories of physical damage.

He then equips the Belt of Inertial Barrier, and gets a 25% boost to his missile weapon resistances. His stats will therefore look like:

Crushing: 40%
Slashing: 40%
Piercing: 40%
Missile: 45%

Assume he then gets hit by a missile weapon. Is his effective missile resistance now 85%? Perhaps it takes the higher modifier of the two, so missile resistance is 45% and piercing resistance is therefore ignored in this case.

Any comments?

[Jim]

I suppose a good test would be to make a character with 80% piercing resistance and 20% missile resistance and see if that character is immune to missile weapons. Anyone care to indulge?

[Alson]

I also thought missile weapons deal piercing damage. A quick check in the Infinity Explorer shows different results -- missiles (Arrows, Bolts) and their respective launchers (Bows, Crossbows) all deal missile damage. Jim, you have Near Infinity (which is superior to Infinity Explorer in just about everything). Would you mind checking?

[Jim]

Originally posted by Alson: I also thought missile weapons deal piercing damage. A quick check in the Infinity Explorer shows different results -- missiles (Arrows, Bolts) and their respective launchers (Bows, Crossbows) all deal missile damage. Jim, you have Near Infinity (which is superior to Infinity Explorer in just about everything). Would you mind checking?

I've only got IEEP at the mo, but will take a look at Near Infinity if its good. At work at mo so will try and check later, but consider this......if missile damage is indeed different to piercing, why is a character with 100% piercing resistance immune to missiles?! (think mustard jelly)

[Radek]

To make order in all that, we would have to know the precise meaning of the resistances - which we don't know. Understand me well: we have to know how the resistances are implemented in the program. Messages form the Scroll of Misinformation (manual, etc.) aren't relevant here. Because we don't know what we need to know, we can only create hypotheses. Here is my hypothesis:

The "missile" resistance reduces the chance to hit the opponent. If the missile hits then the damage is evaluated by means of the "piercing" resistance.

This would explain why the Mustard Jelly if immune to missiles actually. Well, the missile hits the jelly but - the 100% piercing resistance reduces the damage to zero. The drawback of the hypothesis is that it bypasses AC somehow. How is AC involved in the attack-parry evaluations in case of missile attacks?
Anyway, let us accept the hypothesis. Let the missile resistance be M (100% = 1) and let the piercing resistance be P (again, 100% = 1). Then the effective reduction of damage taken from missiles will be

to 100*(1 - M)*(1 - P) percent

and the effective reduction taken from piercing attacks will be

to 100*(1 - P) percent

Therefore, the barbarian in your example will reduce the damage taken from missiles to 100*0.6*0.55 = 33% in average. Damage of other piercing attacks will be reduced to 60%. The character in your second post will reduce missile damage to 16% in average. Damage of other piercing attacks will be reduced to 20%. The Mustard Jelly reduces both piercing and missile damage to 0% because of P = 1.

I don't know

(edit) Oops! Overprint! Now it's (let us hope!) ok.

[ 02-21-2003, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: Radek ]

[Alson]

Originally posted by Jim: ... At work at mo so will try and check later, but consider this......if missile damage is indeed different to piercing, why is a character with 100% piercing resistance immune to missiles?! (think mustard jelly)

Mustard Jellies have 30% Slashing Resistance, 100% (!) Crushing Resistance, 85% Missile Resistance, and 60% / 30% (there are three .CRE files) Piercing Resistance.

You must be confusing them with Ochre Jellies and/or Green Slimes -- both have 100% Missile Resistance, but 0% Piercing Resistance. The Otyugh also has 100% Missile Resistance, while merely 5% Piercing Resistance. As far as i can remember, the Otyugh is immune to missiles and traps, but vulnerable to, say, Spears -- which deal piercing damage.

[Dundee Slaytern]

The three types of Mustard Jellies in the game have the following, Alson.

Acid: 0%
Cold: 50%
Electricity: 100%
Fire: 0%
Crushing: 60%
Piercing: 100%
Slashing: 30%
Missile: 85%
Magic: 100%
Magic Fire: 0%
Magic Cold: 50%

Acid: 0%
Cold: 50%
Electricity: 100%
Fire: 0%
Crushing: 30%
Piercing: 100%
Slashing: 30%
Missile: 85%
Magic: 10%
Magic Fire: 0%
Magic Cold: 50%

Polymorph Version
----
Acid: 0%
Cold: 50%
Electricity: 0%
Fire: 0%
Crushing: 0%
Piercing: 0%
Slashing: 0%
Missile: 100%
Magic: 10%
Magic Fire: 0%
Magic Cold: 50%

Courtesy of Shadowkeeper.

[Dundee Slaytern]

To cut a long story short, you mixed up the crushing and piercing resistance.

[Angelousss]

i'm a little confused, all missle weapons deal piercing damge? then how do clerics use slings? shouldn't slings be crushing?

[Alson]

Huzzah!!
Ladies and gentlemen, the days has come! Dundee Slaytern himself has finally downloaded the infamous Shadowkeeper! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Oh, and one more thing. Infinity Explorer is bugged. It's mixing Piercing and Crushing resistance scores. Thanks for making me see this, Dundee. [img]smile.gif[/img] This explains why Clay Golems have 100% Crushing Resistance...