I've got no class.

[Sazerac]

Originally posted by Attalus: Avatar, I believe that you are comparing apples and oranges. To compare students at Cambridge to students at a disability-funded computer repair course would be just that. I am sure that these bozos are just lazy and that they had no collusion. If they had that kind of organizational skill, they woouldn't be in a vocational training course in the first place. I agree that you should just penalize their grade and forget it, Saz. (Remembers in college when the prof didn't show up and how happy we would be. As I recall, you had to wait 5 minutes for a teaching asssistant, 10 for an assistant professor, and 15 for an Associate or Full professor.)

Fully agreed, Attalus! I'm sure you and Galadria will agree that one wouldn't get very far in medical school being present only "part of the time." Yeesh, you'd be out within a couple of weeks! Thing is, our pace is really that fast and furious.

I must say that I am rather dismayed at the number of people here who seem to think that subtle bribery is to be encouraged as an incentive for attendance. Is this how students are motivated these days? Although I am all for giving extra-credit points for additional work completed or for superior quality work, regular class attendance is mandatory rather than a luxury, and should not be used as a negotiating tool between student and teacher. It sounds like some people are out for all the "fo' free" they can get. It also smacks of "entitlement" and, IMO, is a rather immature expectation on the students' part. I certainly hope none of YOU expect that on a regular basis from your instructors!

A little more background: Two of the students in the class are over 40 years old (they're older than I am). The other two are in their 20's. I gather that one works two jobs, which is probably why he's absent most of the time. One has a bad back, and the other (the one who can't get up in time) I gather has some pretty severe emotional problems. Ironically, the one with the bad back (the only female in the class) is the one with the best track record. She's usually there, and if she's not, there's generally something legitimately wrong (like she's in such pain she can't move).

This is why I think that "collusion" on the part of the students, (even though that was a creative suggestion!) is rather unlikely...they're not particulary good friends with each other. Although they get along in class, they live so far apart and have such vastly different schedules that it would be utterly impractical for them to do such a thing; not to mention counterproductive.

Anyway, I at least have a couple here today, so it's time to get back to work from break. Cheers!

[Cloudbringer]

Good Luck, Saz! I hope they realize it's their own future employability (hehe. is that even a word?!) that is at stake!

Cloudster

[WOLFGIR]

Saz, since I well erhm.. stated the bribes here, I will tell you the whole point, and I didn´t had the complete situation at hand. If a techer give the students some perks for comming, the teacher can then demand more of his/her students. This is how it should be and the bribe of serving coffee at a Monday morning is to show the students that the teacher knows the problem of many youngsters being (and older ) tired on monday mornings. No excuses stated here but rather you take a step and also a small solution. In general people will like this since you reach out to them, and in general the students will then reach out back. If not, it´s of course a waste of coffee and a doomed project. But it might be worth a try, or ask the students if they would like to bring coffee themselves. I mean you can drink coffee and still learn stuff and work.

Well thats more or less the idea. Of reaching out to each other as groups.

Originally posted by Sazerac: quote: Originally posted by Aelia Jusa: Well I agree with Mel that it's very disrespectful of the whole class not to show up, especially if it happens often. When you're in a class of twenty or more then it's not so bad I think if a few people don't come occasionally, but if you know there's only four people in the class the least you can do is come [img]graemlins/idontagreeatall.gif[/img] . At uni the buzz is always you don't have to be here, just know that it's much harder to pass if you don't come, and the lecturers/tutors won't help you catch up if you just don't show up. But that's with classes of a hundred or more. I remember my philosophy tutorial in first year, it was at 9am - apparently that's early for some people , and there'd usually be me and at most two other students there (out of fifteen). I could tell the tutor found it annoying, and I did too because philosophy tutorials especially are about discussion and different points of view. Maybe you could have a system where 10% or so of their grade is participation - coming to lectures and being active in them. Some of my classes do that and it seems to work, at least there are more students there when there's grades riding on it than when it's purely optional.

Well, attendance is pretty mandatory at our academy. You miss 7 class hours, your grade drops 1 letter grade, regardless of what it was originally. You miss 11 class hours or more, you get an "F" and have to retake the course. On top of that, class participation is 10% of the grade.

I must admit I've never had a group this bad before. Most people at least *try*, and it's not like it's the first time I've ever taught this class (it's A+ Computer Repair, you'd think they'd LOVE it, but no, it's a class full of deadbeats who are there only to pick up a subsistence check and bilk the system...well, that's not going to work. I am going to be talking with some of the TRC counselors (Texas Rehabilitation Commission) since they are paying the way of a lot of these students to come to class.

Now some of them have some legitimate problems, like living 15 miles out in the boonies and their car has broken down. Sometimes they have to drop out and tend to their "RL" issues and then come back in another session. (Our classes and sessions only go for 6 weeks at a time, attending all days). But for those who don't come because they *can't get out of bed in the morning*, that's going to stop. I actually had one come in an HOUR LATE one morning last week, slump into class, and fall asleep at the desk while we were working and begin SNORING! I'm glad to say that I didn't have time to do anything about it, because before I could turn and reprimand him, he got a rather nasty poke in the ribs from one of his peers sitting behind him.

Sad thing is, I have to put up with these clowns for three hours (8:30 to 11:30) each morning. There's less than 2 weeks left to this session, and they're supposed to take the hardware portion of the A+ exam on the first Friday in May as their final exam. I can already predict that none of them will pass, because none of them have done the work or put forth the effort that will bring them to a level to where they are capable of passing. I hate to say it, but I'm pretty well washing my hands of them after this. I will continue to teach them what I can, but if they're not interested in learning, there's only so much I can do. There's no way I'm going to get any silk purses out of that bunch of old sow's ears. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

*whew* Ok, rant mode over. At least my afternoon classes are worth their weight in gold...those students CARE about their future and appreciate being taught new things.

Cheers,
-Saz[/QUOTE]Ahh now I see what is going on a whole lot better [img]smile.gif[/img] One of my biggest problems with our "welfare" and "corrections" systems is that it makes too many assumptions that the people involved are interested in bettering themselves, and has no real teeth to discourage "sponges" who just want to take without earning or deserving....or as you said...play the system.

[Yorick]

Sazerac, I'm not sure if this has been suggested, but try this.

Set a test. A difficult hard test they have to be there to complete, that starts right on the dot.

Or organise something positive like an field trip that will be amazingly fun.

Then, don't turn up. Or get there about five minutes before class ends.

Put them in your shoes. See if that changes their attitude.

Then I'd be using positive incentives such as Wolgirs coffee thereafter. Getting 'on side' with them and even getting their numbers and waking them up each morning (there are only four of them right?)

[Avatar]

It's not subtle bribary Saz, it's motivation.. all in the words... [img]smile.gif[/img]
Chocolates are thown at the geniuses of our electronics class if they can spot teacher mistakes or answer trick questions.
And in the end we all got chocs for being there [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Sazerac]

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys, I'm bearing these in mind. Wolfgir, sorry, didn't mean to imply you were suggesting bribery; coffee and donuts I would consider a "perk", not a bribe. Giving additional points for attendance, or other gifts, however, I am not into doing, which I think was suggested by others.

Well, I found out from one of the students today that the reason he wasn't there yesterday is that his DOG (!) was sick. Now THAT'S a new one...usually it's one's kid that's sick, or oneself. See what I mean, what I have to work with here? Bah!!

Anyway, because of all their absences, there's no way we can complete all the material in the course, and unless they are computer geniuses (which I can attest most definitely that they are NOT) or are lucky guessers, they more than likely won't make it on the A+ Exam. Too bad...guess they'll have to take the class again. I know I've been here every day.

On the up side, my MS Word 2000 class is doing fabulously and I predict just about all of them will ace the MOUS examination. Difference? They're motivated to learn, and they want to succeed.

Cheers,
-Saz