Drizzt (again) might contain spoilers

[Grungi]

i think you should only loose rep if your seen by someone else anyway, im fed up of killing someone in the middle of nowhere to find my rep is lowered, i mean who saw it, did the squirrel grass me up or what? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[InsaneBane]

Hmm - consider this:

1) Some strange people wander into my hometown holding Drizzts weapons and wearing his chainmail. Someone has told me that he found Drizzts dead body in the wilderness, without his weapons and armour. Hmm - Makes me think 'strange people' = 'bad guys/gals' => reputation loss.

2) A shape changing druid takes a trip into the wilderness as a squirrel. Imagine his/her feelings when he/she sees a couple of strangers hacking Drizzt down, just to enrich themselves with the magical items from Drizzts dead body.

3) A fellow ranger concealed in the shadows watches his/her good friend Drizzt going down by the hands of a 'highwaymen'.

These are just some of the reasons, why you can loose reputation, eventhough you think that no one saw your wicked deed.

Insane

[SixOfSpades]

There are at least 4 wholly separate ways to kill Drizzt, and all of them involve taking advantage of the game's poor AI. Nobody can beat Drizzt in a fair fight, not even if you had a party consiting of Sarevok, Tamoko, Ulraunt, Tazok, Angelo and yourself. One guy claimed that he beat Drizzt in a fair melee, when he had a party of just 4 characters who were only Levels 1-2. In AD&D parlance, that kind of person is called a "liar."

I can confirm that you definitely lose Reputation for killing Drizzt. He is classified as an "innocent," and the only way to kill him and not lose Rep is when your Rep was already rock-bottom to begin with.

[ 01-24-2003, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

[Vedran]

Aiiiiii! You're right! I forgot. You DO lose reputation.
(What a humiliation...)

[Grungi]

yeah insane that would work for the few times you do take their equipment, but what about the 100s of other times when you slaughter innocents, not every case would be recorded , erm not that i slaughter innocents, erm no that wasnt me, it was baggins, yep thats right, i saw him do it!

*looks around furtively*

anyyyyyhows yes those are a few possible explanations but i think only if your ACTUALLY seen in game by another char or something else (shapechanged squirrel [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) then you shouldnt lose rep, though you should lose alignment, like nwn does.

[Lord Brass]

So that party's actions affect alignment in NWN then Grungi? That's interesting, and more in keeping with the D&D mindset.

[SixOfSpades]

While we're discussing Alignment & Reputation, let's think some thoughts:

• You're in the middle of nowhere, and you kill some nameless wandering Commoner. Should your reputation suffer? Should your Alignment change?
• You are seen killing an innocent while you are shapeshifted into another form. Should your Reputation suffer?
• Should a Lawful Good character and a Chaotic Evil character take the same Rep. loss for killing an innocent?
• Should each party member have their own Reputation, with the Rep. of the party being the average of its members?

[Lord Brass]

No.

That was the answer you expected, wasn't it?

[Calsiumus]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: [*]Should each party member have their own Reputation, with the Rep. of the party being the average of its members?[/list]

I think its a good ide... then your paladin doesent take any loos when your evil mage kills some commeners for fun!!*hahah* any way it a good ide...

[Pirengle]

Warning! Spoilers!
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Okay, so they're not that huge, just wanted to warn you anyway...
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Originally posted by SixOfSpades:

You're in the middle of nowhere, and you kill some nameless wandering Commoner. Should your reputation suffer? Should your Alignment change?

If middle of nowhere is like Jared (the bridge and bear thing), I'd say no. Laurel and the gibberling problem are too far north to really see anything. If middle of nowhere is like finding Eldoth, I'd say no. The druids are EVERYWHERE in Cloakwood and they would see and they would know. If middle of nowhere is like Dynaheir, I'd definitely say no. Not only are the gnolls only holding her captive (according to Ingot), but you'd have to have either Minsc or Edwin in your party to even get out to the stronghold, IIRC. Minsc would be a tad upset that you killed her, and Edwin would just be acknowledging your sinister nature.

As for alignment, the cause for death would be an indicator. Killing Tenya over the bowl fight seems to me like a lawful evil deed, since you're upholding the law to the letter. Drizzt seems very neutral evil, since people are only slaughtering the poor Drow for his gear. Wanton murder is chaotic evil, period, end of sentence.

You are seen killing an innocent while you are shapeshifted into another form. Should your Reputation suffer?

So Jar Jarheria (as Butterfingers calls her) is for some odd reason doing the lookout quest for the Thieves' Guild. She shifts into the form of a brown bear to pass the time, while the rest of the party kicks the can in the Blushing Mermaid. A FFE questions this bear, goes hostile when she tells the thieves to run for it, and is forced to rip him in half after he whacks her a couple times with his sword. Everyone else sees a bear. I think in this case Jaheira should suffer no penalty, because everyone sees her as a bear, not an annoying fighter/druid. So I'd say yes.

Should a Lawful Good character and a Chaotic Evil character take the same Rep. loss for killing an innocent?

No. I think that alignment AND class should play into this kind of reputation loss. Imagine Ajantis killing a commoner. Now imagine Xzar killing the same commoner in the same situation. Ajantis is an LG paladin, Xzar is a CE necromancer. Ajantis should get the biggest smackdown because he is a paladin, and shouldn't be engaging in those sort of activities. But Xzar, whose already admitted to stealing elven eyes, is already in an Evil party (unless you're roleplaying an odd party or just picked him and Monty up). So not only is the party's reputation low to begin with, chances are that they've done a lot, LOT worse than just kill one commoner (like reading SixofSpades' evil party post, for example).

Should each party member have their own Reputation, with the Rep. of the party being the average of its members?

I think each party member should have their own reputation score for events they were involved in, and an overall party score. Let's say your party's encountered Tarnesh and in the middle of the fight, Montaron accidently whacks one of the FAI guards, and he and Xzar kill him while the PC and Imoen scramble to the temple. Monty should get rep loss for whacking the good guy in the first place and continuing the fight. Xzar should get rep loss for fighting the FAI guard, as the only reason the FAI guard is hostile is because Monty whacked him, thus the rep loss he suffers should be less by comparison. Since the PC and Imoen didn't do anything wrong, they shouldn't suffer. A percentage of the rep loss suffered by Monty and Xzar should reflect on the party's overall reputation, as they were party members when the shenanigans went on.