Science- Religion or Not?

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: Cerek I wasnt attacking christianity. If you read the post I think you are refering to I also mentiond Jewish and Muslim leaders. It is not the threat of the chrisitan hell I was refering to either. It was the narrowmindedness that is prevalent in ALL religons I was refering to. Simply put almost every religeon says if you dont follow our god and think like us , ie; anti abortion and homosexuality, then you will suffer eternal torment in the afterlife. And before you tell me not your god , read the bible , YES your god says it also.

I'm well aware of what my God says in the Bible. While the homosexual lifestyle is dealt with extensively, there is no specific chapter or verse that addresses the issue of abortion per se. That falls under the 6th Commandment (Thou shalt not kill).

These acts are sins. So, does that mean that gays or those who have abortions are condemend to Hell? A lot of Christians would say YES, but I say NO, at least not automatically.

God hates sin...but HE LOVES THE SINNER!!! We are ALL sinners and we ALL fall short of code of conduct He would like us to follow. That includes everybody from the front-row Bible thumper to a killer on Death Row. Some sins are considered more heinous by society, but not by God. In His eyes, no sin is greater or lesser than another.

So if I, as a sinner, can receive free pardon of my sins through God's Holy Grace, there is NO reason that ANYBODY else cannot receive the same pardon.

For your broader question, I realize you were addressing ALL religions as a whole, but I don't know enough about the Muslim or Jewish faith to comment on them.

You are correct that almost every religion - Christianity included - believes they have "the right answer" and that others are wrong. I agree with that - up to a certain point.

That's no different than scientist who have opposing hypothesis regarding the same data. When trying to explain something, different scientists will naturally approach the situation from different perspectives, and will give more weight to different types of data. Does this mean that both are being narrow-minded because they believe their theory is right and the other is wrong? Sometimes yes, but not necessarily.

In the end, they will say "OK, PROVE to me that you are right and I am wrong." The same principle CAN be applied to religion.

God has PROVEN His existence to me on more than one occasion. He has answered prayers in little ways and in grand ways. He has given me comfort when I was emotionally depressed, and He has spared my life when doctors said I wouldn't survive past the next 72 hours.

God has proven His existence to me beyond a shadow of a doubt. So I know that - for me - Christianity is the right religion. However, I don't expect that to be valid proof to anybody else. Each of us must decide for ourselves if we will seek Him or not, and what will prove his existence to us if we do.

Good post Cerek. I too have been blessed in that God has chosen to prove his existence to me time and time again. He made it easier for me to accept him. As you said, in small little ways and in some grand and wonderous things he has done for me. For me he made it easy to have faith, for others it seems he has decided to let it be more dificult. I suppose that doesn't sound exactly rational, but faith is not about being rational or logical.

As for who is and is not going to heaven, I think that no matter what the Bible syas about it, that it would be the height of presumption and arrogance for us to make that determination which only God is qualified to make..

Just my 2pennies.

P.S. Would you believe I was picking my color HEX numbers at random and came up with the same exact color as you? what a coincidence [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 06-18-2002, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Calaethis Dragonsbane]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Calaethis Dragonsbane: Is that right... so it is NOT possible for a christian to 'fall'... say, commit an unforgivable sin. Nothing is certain, in a moment of weakness, you *could* do something you may regret `till the end of your days, and maybe beyond... never think for one moment you are completly safe. Sin is always there... The way I understand my religious instructors in the Catholic church, there is no such thing as an unforgivable sin. In the light of Divine grace, a truely repentent person may be forgiven for any transgression. The key here is that only God knows if the person is truly repentent.

If I remember correctly; theres a reference in the bible somewhere that goes something like this... 'may speak out agaisnt the son of man, even the father, but let no one speak out against the holy spirit, for that is unforgivable' it went SOMETHING like that, I know that isnt the corret wording, but thats the gist of it...

[Gabriel]

Science is not religion, science is trying to work out how. How what you ask, well how everything really.
Religion is the belief that anything and everything is an act of some god or/and that certian path in life will aid us better in the after life.
While both have caused death, one only makes weapons and the other starts wars. One has improved life a given hope and healed the sick, the other gives only hope and rarely heals.
Mind you science has something had something to say about religion, about a few billion years worth HAHAHAHAha!!!!!

[DeSoya]

Science is not a religion. Never should be and never will be even though people confuse it as such and willfully confuse their religious beliefs with scientific research.

The canonnical example of science as religion seems to be evolution. Before I go any further let me say that I'm not pushing one point of view or the other (evolution or creationism), I'm merely trying to make a small example. In short, this post is not about evolution vs creationism or anything. Just science as religion.

Evolution. Contraversial, unproven, an evolving theory (sorry for the pun.... couldn't resist. ). Now, say I became a scientist and me and a hundred other scientists spent years and millions of dollars researching the beginnings of human life and found that lo and behold Humanity was "seeded" here by alien beings. All the stuff that we attributed to evolution was actually carefully planned advancements carryed out by the aliens via microwaves, shot from invisible space ships that orbit Earth (now that I think about it, this scenario sounds like something by Phillip K. Dick). The evidence found is compelling. The proof goes far beyond anything that backs the theory of evolution. What would happen next would be very similar to what occured after Einstein said that Newton was kind of wrong. There would be a period of intense debate, probably a few other experiments would be done to correlate findings and then acceptence of the Alien Plan theory. Not, of course, complete acceptance. There would be a few who hang onto evolution with religious fervour and then there would be those who would go and try to prove the theorem wrong or find a different one.
Religion on the other hand, or I guess I should say Western Religions would respond differently to a similar situation. Each acceptance of difference comes with a great deal of rhetoric about how the church wasn't wrong about whatever it was that they had purported in the first place. The Church's adherence to Aristotilien theory set science back quite a bit. Several hundred years really. When they finally decided that the Copernican view of the Solar System was correct they reneged on all the rhetoric that had been spewed about the Earth being the center of the universe.

Originally Posted by Yorick Theology itself IS a science!

Theology is the science of religion. Not scientific religion. Oh semantics how I hate thee.

Originally Posted by Yorick Religion is never the cause of War. Human greed, fear, politics, racial hatred and conflicting needs are the cause of wars, not religions.

John Huss would be rolling over in his grave if he had one. Have you forgotten the wars of Reformation?

DeSoya

[Sir Goulum]

Originally posted by DeSoya: quote: Originally Posted by Yorick Theology itself IS a science!

Theology is the science of religion. Not scientific religion. Oh semantics how I hate thee. [/QUOTE]I think it is scientific religion.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by DeSoya: John Huss would be rolling over in his grave if he had one. Have you forgotten the wars of Reformation? DeSoya

Sure have. Being a protestant I'm very familiar with the atrocities Roman Catholicism inflicted on people like myself.

Even so, the causes were greed, fear, politics and conflicting needs. As ever the cause of war. The religion was irrelevent

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Sir Goulum: quote: Originally posted by DeSoya: quote: Originally Posted by Yorick Theology itself IS a science!

Theology is the science of religion. Not scientific religion. Oh semantics how I hate thee. [/QUOTE]I think it is scientific religion.[/QUOTE]I agree. Knowledge is knowledge. How, why, what, who. Religion involves introspective science, and science that deals with the "why", with understanding God (the "who"), and the knowledge to attaining self harmony (the "how"). Biology and archaeology deal with the "what".

[Sir Goulum]

Well explained Yorick. I would have explained my reasoning myself, but I couldn't think of any words or phrases to use.

[Xero279]

Originally posted by :Talthyr Malkaviel Actually, what you just said is how Science has always been at the opposite end of the scale to Christianity, not religion.

Talthyr has a good point, science is an "antonym" of christianity, not EVERY religion. Not every religion believes that a god/goddess created this earth, some belive that it was created by the elements and gasses and such just as science. Has anyone noticed (not offence to christians) that christianity claims that any other belief other than that god created earth is wrong and will get u burned for eternity..i see that ass trying to scare people away from facts and into beliefs...